K40 gone - Time to sell cameras?

[super8man]

So, is this now considered a buyers market or a sellers market for the auto only cameras that only read two film stocks?

[CHAS]

So, is this now considered a buyers market or a sellers market for the auto only cameras that only read two film stocks?

How will the auto cameras read the 64T?

[T-Scan]

How will the auto cameras read the 64T?

My Canon's are capable of reading 64T, this will be 40ASA in daylight.

[Splee]

OK...40ASA in daylight. How will the filter need to be set?

If this is a major problem, it could spell the end of me using Super 8. I have a Canon AF310XL, which is a lovely camera, but it only reads 25/40 and 125/160 speeds, and only has auto exposure. To get 40ASA, the cartridge will need to be notched correctly, and the filter placed on the tungsten setting. Will this screw up the colour balance outside in daylight?

I'm confused...can any experts enlighten me?

[Actor]

The new Ektachrome 64T will be notched as 64T/40D. Cameras capable of detecting this notching will have no problem. The 85 filter will have to be used in daylight just as with K-40. Again, no problem.

Cameras which detect only 40 and 160 will, in most cases, incorrectly read the film as 40T/25D. If the light meter is TTL and the camera is 100% automatic the film will be over exposed by 2/3 stop and there is nothing you can do about it except start shooting Plus-X.

If the light meter is not TTL but has its own aperture, such as Kodak's line of "binocular" cameras, then all you need do is put an ND 0.2 on the lens. The binocular cameras are the only ones I know of that are not TTL but there could be others. I have not had much luck with the binocular camera. All have failed after one or two cartridges. They seem to have some plastic gears in them that do not stand the test of time.

Another possible, but drastic, approach for TTL metered cams would be to try to permanently install an ND 0.2 in the camera, ahead of the gate but after the point where the meter samples the light. Not for the faint of heart.

This will probably increase the value of my Minolta since it will handle 65T w/no problem. (I'm not selling!) On the other hand the value of my Elmo will probably go down.

[Splee]

Thanks for that explanation - it's making more sense now. Just a few more questions!

* How about exposing at 160? What ND filter will be needed?
* Will 2/3 of a stop be disastrous in terms of over-exposure? I don't shoot anything critical, so as long as I get a decent image out of it, I can cope with this.
* Can the 2/3 stop be compensated for at the processing stage?

[Actor]

So, is this now considered a buyers market or a sellers market for the auto only cameras that only read two film stocks?

Sell the camera to whom? I personally would not feel right selling the cam without telling the buyer the whole story.

This camera works. I've run film through it and had it processed. However, right now the only film you can get for it is a B&W film, viz., Kodak Plus-X. In the future Kodak may offer a new color film for it, viz., Ektachrome 100D but that is not yet available and may never be.

Kodak does offer a negative film called Vision2 200T that may work with it, I don't know. However it's a negative film and you will have to have it transferred to video to view it, a total cost of $50 or more for 3 min 20 sec.

A company in Burbank, CA called Pro8mm also offers some negative films, including Vision2 200T, but it costs just as much as Kodak's film. Plus I've never really heard anything good about Pro8mm.

Yeah, that will bring a lot of bids on eBay.

[Actor]

• How about exposing at 160? What ND filter will be needed?
  
  It is unlikely that an automatic camera would mistake 64 for 160. If it did then it would under expose the film by 2 stops. Any ND filter would only make it worse.
• Will 2/3 of a stop be disastrous in terms of over-exposure?
  
  Only way to tell is to try it. I personally would rather under expose reversal that over expose it.
• Can the 2/3 stop be compensated for at the processing stage?
  
  With B&W film, yes, by pulling (underdeveloping) the film. This will effect contrast. I think pulling increases contrast. I'm not sure.
  
  With color film, maybe. Pulling or pushing color film not only effects contrast but color as well. How much pushing/pulling effects color varies from one emulsion to another. Only by shooting a test catridge will you be able to tell if this is this is the way you want to go. I've been told that K-40, soon to be extinct, can be pulled/pushed with little or no effect on color but I can't swear to that.
  
  I don't think labs will pull or push a fraction of a stop but I've never asked. They will probably want to pull in a full stop, which means you will be under exposing the film by 1/3 stop, which IMHO is better than over exposing it by 2/3 stop.
  
  Pushing/pulling costs extra, about $10 U.S. per stop per cartridge.

[super8man]

I think someone suggested telling the WHOLE story when selling. Hey, last time I checked, gasoline cars are being sold even if the end of petroleum is around the corner. Get over it. Cameras sell every day on ebay that have no current filmstock available in mall-type camera stores. Nope, the seller should never assume what the buyer knows or does not know and simply sell the item as an item in of itself. Do people selling Beaulieu cameras say you have to spend over $250 to get the camera serviced? No. I rest my case.

OK, back to the real goal, watching the bottom fall out on every super 8 camera on ebay...that will be fun.

[Splee]

• How about exposing at 160? What ND filter will be needed?
  
  It is unlikely that an automatic camera would mistake 64 for 160. If it did then it would under expose the film by 2 stops. Any ND filter would only make it worse.

Exposing at 160 is not too difficult. I can't remember which way around it is, I'll have to look, but getting the camera to do it either involves hacking off part of the cartridge, or sticking down a small button in the film compartment - that way, I can set for 160, and slow things down to 64 with suitable filters.

I can never remember if the button on my Canon AF310XL needs to be in or out for 160!

Lee

[super8man]

Out. I am 50% sure of this. (seriously, the normal way if for a button to be pushed in due to the short length of cut in the k40 cart compared to the 160. So, the most normal thing to do would be to cut the cart to allow it to read as 160. Then, when you send it off for processing, they read the notch and ruin your film - JUST KIDDING ON THIS LAST PART! But got you thinking huh?

[Splee]

OK, back to the real goal, watching the bottom fall out on every super 8 camera on ebay...that will be fun.

I have a feeling that basic automatic cameras that can only shoot at 40/160 ISO will slump in value, and those that can cope with 64 will attract a premium.

[switar king]

Hello,

The Zeiss Ikon GS8 can read film speeds from 13 TO 25 din artifical light (roughly 12 TO 210 asa) and 11 TO 23 DIN Daylight ( roughly 12 TO 180 ASA). It meters any cartridge in between. Another great Zeiss Ikon GS8 feature.

[BK]

So, is this now considered a buyers market or a sellers market for the auto only cameras that only read two film stocks?

Maybe that dream I had a while back is going to come true after all, me at the landfill going over piles and heaps of super 8 cameras and just choosing the ones that I really want! :lol:

Bill

[Actor]

• How about exposing at 160? What ND filter will be needed?
  
  It is unlikely that an automatic camera would mistake 64 for 160. If it did then it would under expose the film by 2 stops. Any ND filter would only make it worse.

Exposing at 160 is not too difficult. I can't remember which way around it is, I'll have to look, but getting the camera to do it either involves hacking off part of the cartridge, or sticking down a small button in the film compartment - that way, I can set for 160, and slow things down to 64 with suitable filters.

I can never remember if the button on my Canon AF310XL needs to be in or out for 160!

Lee

The button needs to be out.

If you fool the camera into thinking that 64 is 160 then the camera thinks the film is more sensitive than it actually is and under exposes the film. ASA 64 needs more light than ASA 160 so filters just make matters worse.