A BRAND NEW telecinema machine!

[Ugo]

Hi folks!
look here! I found it on ebay, and then I discovered this is a new production from a little factory!

http://www.tobincinemasystems.com/page22.html

[Dave Anderson]

I'd rather buy a DV Sniper for a thousand bucks less, and take my wife on a second honeymoon! For that matter, Roger could go along too. (Just kidding of course... )

Tobin Systems - 480 lines - $3600 S8 only

DV Sniper - 480 lines - $2690 Dual8 + a heck of a support person


Hmmmm.... Which one???



Dave

[MovieStuff]

I'd rather buy a DV Sniper for a thousand bucks less, and take my wife on a second honeymoon! For that matter, Roger could go along too. (Just kidding of course... )

Tobin Systems - 480 lines - $3600 S8 only

DV Sniper - 480 lines - $2690 Dual8 + a heck of a support person

Thanks for the kind words, Dave. Clive Tobin is also very knowledgable and is also noted to be a heck of a nice guy, himself, even though he sort of disses our frame by frame units in his promotional material.

In fact, I think if one really wanted to compare units, the CineMates would be a better comparison, even though they don't have a camera built in.

http://www.moviestuff.tv/8mm_telecine.html

The Tobin unit runs in real time, as do our CineMate units. While the Tobin unit has a built in 480 line 1CCD camera, the CineMate units are limited only by the quality of the camera you use. If you want to use a 3CCD broadcast camera, then that is the quality you are going to get. You can use a 480 line 1CCD camera with the CineMates if that's all you desire but you can not change out the 1CCD camera on the Tobin unit to something better if your clients demand better quality.

Also, the CineMate units are dual 8 while the Tobin unit is not. The CineMate units are only $1095.00 while the Tobin unit is $3,600. While the Tobin unit does offer multiple speeds, it is rather pointless unless the unit can run both regular 8 and super 8 on the same machine, which it can't. The amount of 24fps Super 8 home movie footage is near to none, in my experience, unless there is sound and the Tobin unit does not offer sound.

On the other hand, the CineMates are available in both 15fps and 20fps versions and are both dual 8. So, in reality, you could purchase a CineMate-15 and a CineMate-20 together and have $1410 left over, enough to buy a really nice Canon GL2 or other decent 3 chip camera and not be limited to only 480 lines on a 1CCD camera like the Tobin machine. At the very least, for the cost of the Tobin machine, one could double the output by having both CineMate units in operation at the same time with two 1CCD cameras and still have money left over.

But, of course, as Dave pointed out, if you only need 480 lines and want a camera built in, then you could purchase the DV8 Sniper for $2690 and have frame accurate transfers at any playback speed from both regular 8 and super 8 film on a single machine and still save almost $1000 in the process.

http://www.moviestuff.tv/dv8_sniper.html

To me, it isn't really an issue of which unit is "better". It is about workflow and flexibility. Clive has built a unit that is designed for a very specific market and I am certain it works just great. Our units approach transfers differently and our markets may overlap a bit but, for the most part, I think we are servicing different customer bases because our clients are expecting different results.

Roger Evans
http://www.moviestuff.tv

[paulcotto]

I have not seen either unit in person, but let me point out several facts. The TVT-S8 is built from scratch. Clive Tobin has been in business for more then 20 years and supports everything he sells. You do not need to buy a cameral since one is built in. I think it's targeted at people who do film to tape or DVD for home movies and not the more professional market that the the cinemate is. It's also a little more "turn key" since no camera alignment is needed. It works in real time so transfers happen faster, but will have the same 3:2 pulldown artifacts that any other conventional telecine has. I think it's a great thing to have around and the more support they get the more companies will produce new innovative tools for us to use. Also Clive Tobin is a great guy who shares his knowlage freely with all who ask questions, like Roger

Regards,
Paul Cotto

[Ping]

I own and operate both machines (the Moviestuff XPs and Tobin R8 & S8 units). They're all great pieces of equipment doing a fantastic job in exactly the market niches that they're designed for. It's like picking out the right golf club - there are several to pick from and there's a best one for each shot.

As for support, I can say from personal experience that both Roger at Moviestuff and Clive at Tobin Cinema Systems are first rate in their interest in the quality of their equipment, the science of film transfer, and the success of their clients.

There are some comparison clips at my web site, http://www.pingpongmedia.com. (If you get a codec error from the downloaded video, please don't yell at me. I'm trying to get it worked out ... arrgh!)

Make your choices on technical merit and intended purpose. You won't go wrong with either solution from these professionals.

Bob Nichol
http://www.filmtovideo.tv

[downix]

Hmm... Cinemate with a Sony FX1.......

[Dave Anderson]

There are some comparison clips at my web site, http://www.pingpongmedia.com. (If you get a codec error from the downloaded video, please don't yell at me. I'm trying to get it worked out ... arrgh!)

What codec did you use for the two mpg clips? I don't see where there was a codec embedded in the clips? weird.


Dave

[ncsproducts]

There are some comparison clips at my web site, http://www.pingpongmedia.com. (If you get a codec error from the downloaded video, please don't yell at me. I'm trying to get it worked out ... arrgh!)

The frame-by-frame has nicer color, and seems generally better.
I do notice a slight 'gate weave' by looking at the perfs on the left hand side.
Does that always happen?

[Ping]

I do notice a slight 'gate weave' by looking at the perfs on the left hand side.
Does that always happen?

No, I think that's more a function of the quality of the film slit than anything else. I don't notice it much.

[Ping]

What codec did you use for the two mpg clips? I don't see where there was a codec embedded in the clips? weird.

I tried encoding AVI to an mpg file with Main Concept 1.4 and with several different settings. The results always are that it'll play on some computers and not others - even my own! I am unable to noodle out just why it works on some and not on others. Same with clients - some have no problem downloading and viewing and others cannot. It's driving me around the bend! For the short term, today I changed to a Windows Media file format, but it is terrible compared to a real mpg file.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'm here to listen to any and all help. Sorry, this is taking us off the thread of this subject.

[Ping]

Hmm... Cinemate with a Sony FX1.......

... now, that's somethin' to really get your juices goin'.