Sound sync

[will]

Hi, I am very glad to write my first mail on this forum, that I have been reading for several weeks, trying to learn more and more about 8mm.
I bought on e-bay a Beaulieu 4008 M3 two weeks ago. It was a huge satisfaction to receive it and hang it last week. 8)

But now filming, and questions come to my mind concerning sound sync.
In one hand I have a Beaulieu with a possibility to put a Piloton (but I have no cable neither the sound recorder which would accept this)
In the other hand I can get a Mini disc, for example, which is automatically "quartzed" at 50Hz.

How getting synchronized sound with this? the Piloton system and the quartz are two different way to get it...
Would there a cheap way to get it? making a "special cable" or someting like this?

Thank you in advance,

Will
P.S : I have the instructions of the Beaulieu 4008 ZMIV in French. I can scan it if some people needs it...

[matt5791]

Firstly have a think about how much you really need exact lip sync capability: chances are that unless you have people speaking on scene from longer than 5-6 seconds you will be able to get away with the camera and mini disk with no modification.

Thus you need to think about what type of stuff you want to shoot with your new camera. Many many appications do not need lip sync accuracy. I have had plenty of sucess using a mini disk to record the sounds of a location, and on occasion speech too.

If you want to shoot a documentary or a film where you have people speaking on scene then the easiest way is to have the camera modified to run at exactly 25fps with the use of a crystal control. But remember you will need a second person to operate the sound equipment too.

The days of one man operation sync sound super8 filming went out with sound striped film.

Matt

[Mikael]

A 4008 M3, ey ? Cool find. One of the more rare 4008's.

Have a ZM4 myself. In my bed. I like to cuddle with it. Hehe.

[will]

Dear Matt

thank you very much for your answers. I looked for the price of modifying camera with crystal control, and the price of Piloton system (http://www.beaulieu.de); it seems really expensive (more expensive than the camera itself). As you are "technical" experts, someone should have a solution less expensive. But it is sure that I will record directly with the Minidisc as you advised me.

Concerning my new camera, it seems a little rare and I had to look for information on the web to find the differences with the 4008 ZMIV.
The M3 has manual zoom and has not the function to make superimposition. But the batterie of 600mA is really good, so I am going to shoot with K40 this week end (and the Minidisc).
Just one problem perhaps, the frosted glass has some black spots, and I do not know if they can be taken off...

[aj]

You know (?) you can swing the frosted glass in and out using the knob just above the selectorknob (test,auto,man)

It is only used/needed for focusing. Otherwise swing it out. If the aperture closes a bit you have hardly a view left and you are better off without it.

If the particles are on the 'outside'you can clear them by using a blower. After taking off the lens and swinging in the ground glass. DO NOT hit the mirror, it is sensitive!

The back of the glass is more difficult as the grounded glass is mounted on a tube/rim and access is limited.

[matt5791]

The other thing I forgot to ask: How do you want to present your film? Do you want to project it; or transfer to video and present it from tape?

I ask this because if you are shooting on film, transfering to video and then editing with a computer, obviously you will be able to feed the sound into the computer. If you want to project with the sound then you need to sound stripe the film and then record your sound onto the stripe with the use of a projector capable of doing this.

Matt

[will]

Thanks very much for your help André. So I can focus with the frosted glass and take it off. Good news.

[will]

I want to transfer it to video and use Final cut pro for editing. That's why I'd like to have syncronized sound with a clap.
On photos Piloton syst looks not to be very complicated....and a friend who works in a radio broadcast could help me to get a Nagra on loan but, do we need a "special" cable to connect the camera to the Nagra?
No answer at the present time on the web, and I have not found any book about this yet.

William

[FILM-THURSO]

We just run the pulse to the mic socket on the minidisc which is fitted with stereo to left & right mono sockets, the mic goes in the other one. With pulse on the left and dialogue on the right it's all we need. Dialogue is mono anyway and can be made to stereo easily later on if required.

[mattias]

just clap at both ends, count how many frames you're off and adjust the speed of the sound to match. works perfectly every time.

/matt

[super8man]

Hey Mattias, that's a great solution - so simple. Stretching (shrinking) sound offers enough leeway that this idea should have come to me LONG ago.

Thanks for the nobrainer!

Cheers,
m

[mattias]

when you've done it a few times you'll know exactly how much your camera drifts, as long as it electronically controlled and doesn't vary with spring tension, battery charge, temperature or whatever, so you can just enter this percentage for all clips and 99% of them will sync right up.

/matt

[T-Scan]

This is the method i've been preaching opposed to crystal sync all along. very easy and effective. my cameras drift 1/2 to 1 second during a full 2:30 minute shot.

[jimmyking]

Matthias can you explain this method please in simple words?
I'm afraid I didn't understand it.

[mattias]

sure, just clap at both ends, count how many frames you're off and adjust the speed of the sound to match. works perfectly every time.

:-) i'm not sure which part you didn't understand. clapping means closing the bar on the slate so it makes a visual and audial cue, and then you can check the timecodes of these in post to see how much they differ, then set a speed percentage for the sound to match. for the detailed procedure i'm afraid you're gonna have to ask more specifically.

/matt