Legal action for failure to renew smallformat?

[Lunar07]

Which makes good customer service and relations all the more important. As I noted previously, I love and support the magazine but since they do not have the customer base of People or Time magazine, then being able to communicate with the people that pay their salary should be all that much easier.

You are right here! Also, for a while, I kept getting duplicate issues of the magazine even as a subscriber. In addition to the subscription issue, the other issue was to convince me to subscribe This meant that they have my name and address twice in their database. OR it is two databases not linked properly.
I had to send them one email after another asking them to stop sending me duplicates. I gave the duplicate issue to friends of mine, but my concern was to save them the cost since I do care about the magazine.

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

To avoid problems with unpaid issues that are sent out with the new invoice, the new invoice can be send with the last already paid issue.

Sound like a very good solution.

[Will2]

The practice of automatically renewing magazines is extremely common in the USA, to the point that Time Magazine was sued by 22 states recently for changing their renewal policy to perpetually renewing subscriptions and sending out renewal letters that resemble formal bills demanding late payment.

Exactly, it's considered a "dirty trick" and people didn't put up with it. I'm not calling this situation one, just a misunderstanding on both parts; subscribers who don't understand the policy and the publisher that perhaps honestly doesn't understand the negative reaction to the tactics.

I think I paid twice last year due to such a letter, although it would be a pain to do the research at this point. I will happily renew my subscription if just to support Juergen's excellent efforts. I do wish it was more affordable, I'd like to send a subscription to my local telecine house and lab to encourage them to explore the Super 8 market rather than just 16 and 35mm. I'm not complaining about the price, I understand why it costs what it does, just lamenting.

[reflex]

...subscribers who don't understand the policy and the publisher that perhaps honestly doesn't understand the negative reaction to the tactics.

Agreed. The big problem (and something that not everyone here understands) is that Juergen doesn't have any control over the publisher. He's their only independent editor. He hands them an issue every couple of months for publication...

And then they behave like crazy Germans.

[Juergen]

Uuuh, yes, James, I could not say that better: They behave like crazy Germans! :mrgreen:

[Nigel]

I had a similar situation a long time ago with those lame CD clubs that were everywhere in the early 90's. After I canceled and they kept sending me collection letters for the CDs they sent. I just ripped up the letters and said if they want the money then they can come after me.

Eventually they stopped chasing me.

I did get one letter from a collection agency and ripped that up too.

It seemed it was all bark and no bite.

My guess is that if they want to hire someone to chase you down over such a small amount then let them do it. Otherwise it seems like a waste of time/effort/money for all parties concerned.

Just another horror story about SmallFormat.

Good Luck

[mondo77]

Funny,

Because I've had the exact opposite problem for 6 months. I've had money burning a hole in my pocket. When it was first mentioned on here that Smallformat were offering .pdf subs I immediately wrote. They were supposed to Paypal me but never did.To cut a long story short - as recently as last week I emailed Juergen saying "Help no one wants my money". Probably won't bother if this is typical, though. It's a shame as I like to support small publications.

[reflex]

Just another horror story about SmallFormat.

You're doing an excellent job of motivating me to translate articles for the next issue. I work really hard on this magazine, and it makes me feel like crap when people take swipes at it.

Honestly, how hard is it for people to write a short email to the subscription department at Schiele & Schoen saying, "Hey, there's been a mistake. I don't want to renew my subscription?" In the meantime, I'm quite sure that Juergen will have a chat with them about the renewal letter, too.

[monobath]

I appreciate all the thoughtful comments from all of you about this situation. Juergen, I would be remiss if I did not mention that I enjoy reading Smallformat magazine. Every issue is a pleasure to read.

Roger correctly identified the situation. I have never before encountered a perpetually renewing magazine subscription. My expectation with any annual subscription is that my payment purchases a specified number of issues. They are paid for in advance, so I and the magazine publisher both know exactly how many issues I've purchased. I do not expect to be mailed additional issues that I haven't paid for. I know that there are magazine publishers who continue to mail one or two issues after expiration of a subscription; I've experienced it before with US publications. I regard that as a marketing decision on the publisher's part to try to retain my business, and that it in no way obligates me legally or morally to continue to renew. They never threaten legal action if I don't send them another annual subscription fee.

Juergen, with due respect, it makes no sense to claim that just because I have renewed before means that I know that the subscription is permanent. I am aware of that now.

I've talked myself into renewing anyway if I can recall how to do so. I don't want to send a letter to Germany. How do I renew online?

[sciolist]

Honestly, how hard is it for people to write a short email to the subscription department at Schiele & Schoen

Sending an e-mail message to the subscription department at Schiele & Schön isn't the problem; it's getting an acknowledgement or an answer. When I sent Schiele & Schön a query asking how I could pay for a renewal of my subscription to Smallformat through PayPal (an option that was offered in the renewal notice but, as I recall, required the subscriber to request an invoice), I took the trouble to translate my request into German using Babel Fish when my initial query in English elicited no reply. Still nothing. Finally, I was able to make payment through Jürgen's kind intervention.

It's a wonderful magazine. I look forward to every issue. Maybe the process will have been sorted when I next renew.

[Jim Carlile]

Jim Carlile,
to compare this topic with Hitler is not funny at all.
And Monobath is NOT living in Australia.

I wasn't aware that Hitler WAS Germany. I was parodying the cliche autocratic nature of the letter-- which-- by the way-- was written in completely inarticulate English, which makes it even more dumbkopf.

The point remains-- unless Monobath or whoever is in the EC, any lawsuit would have to be lodged in the country of residence.

[Juergen]

Hi Monobath,

to renew your subscription just pay your invoice (without the additional fee of 5 Euro), for example via paypal, using the e-mail adress service(at)schiele-schoen.de

Any questions concerning subscriptions may be answered at service(at)schiele-schoen.de - don't forget to mention your full address or the customer's number. If there is any problem, let me know: lossau(at)smallformat.de

[monobath]

Done, Juergen. Thank you.

[etimh]

Honestly, how hard is it for people to write a short email to the subscription department at Schiele & Schoen

Sending an e-mail message to the subscription department at Schiele & Schön isn't the problem; it's getting an acknowledgement or an answer.

Agreed. I sent my inquiry about two weeks ago. No reply. I don't know--maybe I'm being impatient. I'll hold on for a little bit longer.

Finally, I was able to make payment through Jürgen's kind intervention.

Yeah, Juergen has helped me out with personal messages as well. I just feel weird always hitting him up about problems. Subscription issues aren't really his problem, are they?

It's a wonderful magazine. I look forward to every issue.

Me too. And like Will2, I'll probaly just send a payment to avoid missing an issue.

Tim

[James E]

This would clearly be considered a scam in the US and is in fact totally illegal. So I'd say good luck trying to collect or take any action from a US subscriber.
Plus Richard is right: Saying "annual subscription" in any english speaking part of the world means just that: annual. For their tactic to even be legally enforceable in the US and probably Canada it would have to read "Lifetime"..(You will continue to receive monthly/weekly etc... Issues untill you cancell your subscritpion in writing.) There are in fact pleny of publications with those types of subscriptions. But to put it in the fine print and spring it on people is just low. A realy nasty, dirty thing to do. As to the legal department I offer the following leter:
7 August 2008
Dear(insert name here), let me be the first to congratulate you on passing the bar exam .

Fuck off.

Sincerely,
Your name here....

Also in German for your convienance.
7. August 2008

Lieb (Einsatzname hier), lassen Sie mich ist das erste, zum Sie auf dem Bestehen der Stabprüfung zu beglückwünschen.

Bumsen Sie ab. < Not sure if that actually makes sense in German to a German speaker, but that is the literal translation......<

Herzlichst,
Ihr Name hier….

I hate collection punks! Telling them to get bent and getting it of your credit report has been my one consistant field of expertise for 20 years.... It's actually a lot of fun beatting up on them. The problem is they pretty much know that that average consumer doesn't know the law so the break it regularly in an attempt to intimidate people into paying money whether it's a legitimate debt or not. I know the law so they rarely get anywhere but sued and end up paying me, or my client money....
Cheers,