Frame Discreet or Spectra Film?

[Jim T]

Having read through posts on another Super 8 forum (can't search the threads here just yet since site came back up) I have pretty much decided to use one of these two to telecine my Super8 footage.

I live in England but with the sterling/dollar rate being so good at the moment I thought I would take advantage and use a US lab that others have used and recommended. Has anyone here used both of the labs mentioned and have a preference for either?

Also seeing as I can't sit in on the session is it advisable to perhaps have the footage left quite neutral so that I can grade it myself? I would like to try out a few different options and as it is quite an experimental piece I'd like to see what I could get out of the footage.

[reflex]

I don't recommend trying to grade the footage yourself. Assuming your footage is being transferred to MiniDV, you'll loose a lot of image information which will make it hard to adjust your image without additional degradation. Besides, these guys have the expensive color correction equipment, calibrated monitors and lots of experience.

If you can't attend the session, it's best to provide them with a solid idea of what you're after. You can even send them a few seconds from a DVD or TV show to give them an idea of the look you're after.

Both Spectra and Frame Discreet have solid reputations. Spectra uses higher end equipment (Ursa Diamond, da Vinci color corrector), while Frame Discreet uses a Moviestuff Workprinter (although it's their top of the line version).

I'm not sure how big your job is, but you could always ask each to do a short test transfer. A few seconds of footage will give you a good idea of what to expect, although from what I've seen you'll get good work from either.

James

[Jim T]

Do you think that it is feasible to specify what I know I would like, e.g. high contrast with strong, deep blacks and then try applying the filtration myself? It's just that I would like to try out a few different ideas to see what works and what doesn't. Obviously I won't achieve as good results but I would hope that I would learn first hand what works for me in terms of taste and what doesn't and also learn a bit more about post production in general.

Have others post processed their footage themselves and achieved good results?

[reflex]

Tweaking your footage is a lot of fun and I heartily recommend it. It definitely makes sense to get the footage close to what you want so that you have less fiddling to do.

Remember that there's no such thing as a truly neutral transfer. Film has far greater latitude and different color response than video and reversal film has a different look than negative. The colorist at a transfer house does a lot of work to "crush" the image on film into something that works within the more limited constraints of video.

[MovieStuff]

Spectra uses higher end equipment (Ursa Diamond, da Vinci color corrector), while Frame Discreet uses a Moviestuff Workprinter (although it's their top of the line version)

Actually, Frame Discreet uses a Sniper Pro and not a WorkPrinter. Also, Justin has a pretty vast array of signal processing equipment that his broadcast, 3CCD high resolution camera feeds through that makes a big difference on image quality over using a WorkPrinter with a prosumer camera. The WorkPrinter can produced marvelous results, even with a regular camera, but there will be a profound difference in quality between that and what Justin is using. He's even managed to make negative work fairly easily, so my hat's off to him. He does good work.

Roger

[Justin Lovell]

Yup, Roger's right.

I'm using a dedicated DV8 Sniper PRO for super 8 & superduper/max8, dedicated DV8 Sniper PRO for regular 8mm, and a SNIPER 16mm for 16mm and super 16mm transfers.

Roger has helped me out with some upgrades on my units, and I've put countless hours into R & D to dial into a setup that I'm super happy with.

I've seen better registration on my 16mm sniper unit than compared to the gate weave in a URSA diamond scanner.

The moviestuff units rock.

[Jim T]

Hi Justin,

A quick question for yourself. When using 500t outdoors, is it possible to ignore using an 85 filter so to be able to shoot with a smaller aperture if the look you want is a cold, hard look? Are you able to warm up the look of the 500t unfiltered in daylight by much without there being problems in case it comes back looking a bit too cold and lifeless?

[Justin Lovell]

Hey Jim,

It is possible to shoot unfiltered with the neg stocks. I do it all the time. In some cases though I have found that certain colours do render better when using the appropriate 85 filter if shooting outdoors under more 'bluish' light (ie. shadows or early morning). The differences are pretty subtle otherwise.

best of luck, just shoot it and learn from it!

[Justin Lovell]

If you're still following this thread...

Update :

We now are scanning with the flagship lasergraphics scanstation 5k. Able to scan 8/16/35 in up to 5k native resolutions. The scanner is killer. I tested many different ones over the past 2 years before ultimately been sold on this. Spent 2 days at their offices in LA and It handled everything I threw at it, shrunken, torn, faded, new, old, neg, reversal...etc.

Brilliant engineers over at lasergraphics. I love this scanner!

All the best!

Justin Lovell
Assoc CSC Cinematographer
Www.framediscreet.com

[Will2]

If you are new to film scanning I would suggest asking for a flat pass and one color corrected to see what their colorists can do. Justin can explain his work flow but I believe the newer scanning systems like his scan to a flat file then he would color correct that. Maybe he can give you both the flat and the corrected files so you can see what is done. (it may be more money but at least for a first session I'd try it).

What makes a place like Cinelicious worth the crazy amounts of money it can cost is the talent of their colorists. The machine is important, but the final image comes down to what you do with it. I work with some amazing colorists in Dallas but no one here has a high-end Super 8 scanner. So have no problem getting a "flat scan" via the mail and bringing to to them if I need help.

On the other hand, it's been my experience with Pro8mm that you can either get an amazing result or an average result and I assume it's based on who is coloring your film. You might be able to request a specific person which might get you better results.

Also don't be shy to send notes as to what look you want. A good colorist will definitely want those notes to get you what you want.