super 8 shooting nightmare

[Jean Poirier]

A friend has a video project but wanted some scenes in super 8 for a different look (E64T). One day before shooting my Nizo 2056 went dead. No problem I will use a Beaulieu 6008 and have a small Nizo 480 for backup. The Beaulieu decided to stop randomly and the 480 died during the first cartridge. We decide to shoot the rest on video. I guess it is time to find a good repair shop before any new project. Jean

[reflex]

Situations like this may well prove to be the death knell for Super 8.

The equipment is ancient by modern technological standards. Spare parts are often impossible to come by for all but the most popular Super 8 equipment, and the vast majority of skilled repair technicians from the golden age of Super 8 are either retired or no longer with us.

The only thing that lets us keep on shooting is the fact that S8 cameras are extremely cheap and relatively easy to come by. There will come a time when the old cupboards and cellars have been cleaned out. The capacitors, plastic gears and rubber components in our remaining gear will have become too brittle to function reliably and our wonderful machines will sit forever silent.

In the meantime, I'll try to shoot as many rolls as possible.

[reflex cowers under his desk and waits for the angry mob to drag him kicking and screaming into the street, where they fling him roughly onto a flaming pyre of unstable nitrate film.]

[super8man]

...the iron age did not end for a lack of iron...and super 8 will not end due to a lack of cameras...but for now, it keeps on ticking like an energizer battery.

[Rollef]

Jean, just curios.
As there have been some problems with cold E65t carthridges and\or shooting E64t in cold weather, are the cameras dead still with fresh batteries and no carthridge inside?

[Angus]

Super 8 cameras can be repaired due to being largely mechanical...but repairs are often prohibitively expensive as skilled work is costly these days.

Eventually something will cause super 8 to die...either a lack of suitable working ceamras or the end of cartridge production.

[BK]

I guess it is time to find a good repair shop before any new project. Jean

You were unlucky.

What you need is a bulletproof camera, such as the Canon 1014E, 814E. Lesser brands have more chances of breakdowns and require constant attention.

Bill

[David M. Leugers]

Having suffered the premature death of many a S-8mm camera, I empathize... and it is why I have retracted towards using all roll film cameras. R-8mm, DS-8mm and 16mm has never let me down yet.

As far as S-8mm cameras being repairable, and mostly mechanical, I have to disagree. Maybe the simplest box Kodak S-8mm camera is such, but take apart any desirable S-8mm camera with all the bells and whistles and you will find lots of electronics. And it is the electronic components that tend to give up the ghost. My prized Elmo 1012XLS died and even though I spent a lot of money with a certified Elmo repair station, they couldn't repair it due to lack of electronic parts needed... I would venture that most if not all S-8mm cameras are in the same situation. Pro-8mm apparently has spent a lot of money gearing up to refurbish the Beaulieu and Canon cameras they are selling including fabricating some replacement parts. The average repair shop may not be able to undertake such work.

As far as Canon cameras are concerned, yes they are very robust and of high quality. Yet, I have had Canon cameras die on me also so there is still the possibility of problems with them. On the other hand, virtually every Sankyo camera I have owned worked and seem to be very robust. Go figure.

David M. Leugers

[freddiesykes]

My 814xl-s hasn't let me down yet but I always let it run without a cart for about 15 seconds to let the motor warm up a bit. Although the camera never saw much use from the original owner, it still is older than I, so caution must be maintained!

I think my bolex h16 needs a good lube job but unfortunately it has to sit on the shelf (as it has been for the last two years) unused due to lack of funds... :oops:

[MIKI-814]

unused due to lack of funds... :oops:

Welcome to the club

[adamgarner]

Well, all good speculation on the present and future of super 8.

I think two things. Firstly, if there's actually money in shooting super 8, and a demand for cameras and film, then it'll stay afloat. With the subculture (that we're all in a part of 8) ) creating a small need, we seem to be able to keep Kodak making general film stock, and a few other places repacking other film stock even though a super 8 camera hasn't been made in over 20 years.

For some reason a lot of people dislike pro8mm and what they're doing. But, from a business perspective they found a need and are able to supply a wide array of film and refurb cameras that are spectacular. I think that's great that we have places that are organized enough to standardize their quality! Not only that, but make a new standard as well! Max8!? I mean come on! Pretty groovy right?

Secondly, yes, we're going to spend money and time on this. If we wanted to do it on the cheap and easy we wouldn't be shooting in super 8.

Analog vs. Digital has been an ongoing battle since the 70's right? When it comes to artistic mediums it's those that "get it" that keep it afloat. Think about the people that swear by vinyl records. Right? You can still go out and find a wealth of records at specialty shops, and amazing turn tables in the right shops too. When you hear the difference, it's pretty amazing right? If you follow the money trail, digital wins. But there are still people that keep it alive, and without them it'd be dead.

[MIKI-814]

Well, all good speculation on the present and future of super 8.

I agree.

Less worrying and more shooting. That's the only way to make this last longer. Whatever will be, will be. Who knows the future?

If anyone would have told me that in 2008 I would be using S8 again, having stopped it firstly in 1993, I would have thought that he was totally mad...

[adamgarner]

Totally agree. I shot super 8 when I was a kid, in the mid-late 80s. I thought it was a pain in the ass then cause I couldn't find film or places to develop it back THEN. I would never have guessed that 20 years later it would still be buzzing with life, and with such GREAT developments as HD telecine and 35mm film stocks!

[Scotness]

Totally agree. I shot super 8 when I was a kid, in the mid-late 80s. I thought it was a pain in the ass then cause I couldn't find film or places to develop it back THEN. I would never have guessed that 20 years later it would still be buzzing with life, and with such GREAT developments as HD telecine and 35mm film stocks!

Well in alot of ways Super 8 actually has more going for it now than it did in the mid 80's (not in all ways though).


Scot

[Jean Poirier]

Good advice about the Canon. I decided to try a 514XLS fooling the exposure meter and using a Sekonic (1/40 sec at 24fps). It worked so far without problem even around -20F temperature. Almost all other takes will now be inside. So I guess I should not blame the E64T catrtidges. Of course we have to live with old cameras and maybe we don't have the money to use them more often. (I don't regret having all those backup cameras). My advice to the director was to use super 8 for its ability to capture texture and keep video for live sound and long takes. He agreed and wanted anyway to try film even if the results were not always perfect. I hope the combination of video and film will be a plus for the final results. Jean

[reflex]

For some reason a lot of people dislike pro8mm and what they're doing. But, from a business perspective they found a need and are able to supply a wide array of film and refurb cameras that are spectacular. I think that's great that we have places that are organized enough to standardize their quality! Not only that, but make a new standard as well! Max8!? I mean come on! Pretty groovy right?

The big problem with Pro8mm is the cost. $795 for a reconditioned Canon AZ 814? If that's the future of Super 8, there aren't going to be many new filmmakers willing to leap into the format.

As for Max8 - I applaud pro8mm for their promotion, but widening the film gate isn't anything new. Quite a few forum members have tried it, and it has some serious drawbacks. Do a forum search for 'Super Duper 8' and info about Rick & Mitch's Super 8 feature film Sleep Always. It's a great example of the cool things people were doing with widescreen Super 8 before it was being 'introduced' by Pro8mm. ;)