Processing white sparkle/specs on NEG stock

Post by **Justin Lovell** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:47 pm

Hey,

I've had similar results from the 3 different labs that I have tried, and have not gotten great results from any of them. Some drastically worse than others.

All the processing/transfers have come back with white sparkles and specs, and even some thin hairlines that come and go on the film. (Not camera originated either).

I know this is a big problem with super 8 because the specs get magnified much greater than they would on 35mm. Quality control should theoretically be even TIGHTER on super 8 processing because of this.

Has anyone had any REALLY good results from any certain labs?

Thanks,

Post by **Chris-B** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:02 pm

I have not had this problem at Todd-AO in London. Their service and turn around is excellent.
Chris.

Post by **mattias** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:16 pm

you always get some of that, more or less depending on how the lab handles the film and how well the scanner is cleaned. if you get it on entire rolls i'd say you should complain and/or look for better labs. andec for example treat all their film processed for telecine with ultrasonic cleaning. have you watched or respooled the films prior to transfer?

/matt

Post by **Justin Lovell** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:59 pm

The film was processed and transferred by the labs, Im not sure what they were doing for cleaning.

I retransferred some of the stuff here, and got better results in sharpness and color, but the speckle did not go away. After recleaning the film by hand, it didn't improve any either.

From what I've been told, its a problem with the backing coming off the film and contaminating the developer, it then tracks the particles onto the film, blocking certain parts of the image from being developed properly, causing the sparkle. I'm guessing the scratches are a result of the same thing, dirty developer that somehow gets dragged across the film.

Some of these can be hidden via a makeshift wetgate, though it can be dodgy trying to get the right amount of solution so you don't get any appearance of dripping or uneven drying as the film runs through the gate semi wet.

Post by **steve hyde** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:44 pm

It sounds like two problems: dirty chemistry and no ultrasonic cleaning. Go for the high volume labs that run several batches per day. The high volume labs run the super 8 color negs with the 35mm and 16mm for high dollar commercial jobs, so you are best off getting your film in on that process.
Ultrasonic cleaning is essential for clean results and costs 20.00USD extra per 400ft reel and is worth it.

I use AlphaCineLabs here in Seattle and highly recommend them.

Justin, feel free to call me if you want to discuss it.

Steve

Post by **T-Scan** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:07 pm

I've also used the Forde-FSFT route, and Spectra many times with super clean results. And I've noticed a lot of examples from other places that have not been as clean.

Post by **Justin Lovell** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:55 pm

hey steve,

you got that stuff I leant you still?

Post by **Angus** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:25 am

I've used Andec in Berlin for the few neg rolls I've had processed...I had them process, clean then print for projection....very few white specks, which means their processing and cleaning is excellent. When I say very few, I mean almost none...which, I am lead to beleieve, is about as good as it gets. You even see white specks on professional TV and movies sometimes.

I'd suggest that your films were not ultrasonically cleaned between processing and telecine.

Post by **mattias** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:08 pm

i got white sparkle on reversal as well once, which obviously can't be dust since it would be black. anyway, it was a roll of vnf processed by andec. they claimed that nothing had been wrong with that processing batch but that my roll had probably been exposed to heat or something like that before (or after) i shot it. i have no idea but i have no reason not to trust them. i bought the roll off the shelf and who knows where it had been. otherwise i always buy directly from kodak. not that i think all your film has been stored improperly or anything like that... ;-)

/matt

Post by **Justin Lovell** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:56 am

I buy direct from Kodak as well.

They do not ultrasonic clean the film after processing... though if the chemistry is dirty, wouldn't the cleaning be too late for the film?

Post by **steve hyde** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:30 am

jusetan wrote:hey steve,

you got that stuff I leant you still?

..yes, of course, it's boxed up and ready to ship to Toronto. I was hoping to send a film reel along with it for xfer, but I've been doing more post than shooting lately. I'll send it along on Monday...

Again, thanks for saving my project from certain disaster..

...btw, you are looking like a cross between Mattias and Roger Evans these days. What have you been eating?

Steve

Post by **Daniel** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:49 am

Megacolor Laboratory at Sao Paulo, Brasil, is a very good and clean place to process super-8mm (ECN-2 only) They also process 16mm and 35mm formats.

They do pass super-8 film through Ultrasonic cleaning device after processing.

current webpage where service is described :
http://chilefilms.cl/brasil/megacolor/f ... essing.htm

Daniel

Post by **mattias** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:07 pm

steve hyde wrote:What have you been eating?

yeah, he only eats carrots, whereas me and roger (hey, the other way is a movie) only eat steak, so i'm not sure what's going on. maybe the fact that i've been a vegan all 2007 so far as an experiment has something to do with it, and maybe it's not really justin who's changing? soon i'll be churning out really cool street dance and stunt films i'm sure. i am trying to up the ante on my breaking this year and i've added aikido to my martial arts styles (we fall so clumsily in karate) so it's not unlikely.

/matt

Post by **MovieStuff** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:27 pm

mattias wrote:[... i've added aikido to my martial arts styles (we fall so clumsily in karate)....

LOL! Yes, I know what you mean. 30 years and 80 pounds ago, I tried adding Hapkido to what I learned after 7 years of Ishinroo but Hapkido made me dizzy. So then I tried incorporating Savate (french), which was very cool but very aggressive and I kept getting penalized at competitions for "fighting dirty" (savate is a lot like kickboxing and full contact was relatively new for competitions back then). Pesky rules.....

30 years later I'm old and fat and now I just fight to stay awake. ;)

Roger

Post by **Justin Lovell** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:49 am

I just started training once again with the ryouko cats (mixed martial arts, multi-moves, parkour... just having fun), you can see 'em on metacafe. Joe's got a dope section on there, but it's pretty old- you should see how much money he's made off that demo clip... jeez...

http://www.metacafe.com/user/2586896/reel_stunts/