Negative Transfer With VirtualDub> IT WORKS!!

[paulcotto]

I just got done transferring some old 200T Super-8 negative with my home Telecine using VirtualDub filters applied in real time during the transfer and I am very pleased with the results. I stacked about 6 different filters to eliminate the orange mask and to tweak the gamma, white and black levels to restore the gamma curve. I will post a clip shortly as soon as TMPEgnc is done making the MPEG2 file. The footage has a slight strobe to it from my Beaulieu 4008ZMII shutter problems during shooting, so it's not from the telecine. The seen is Shinjuku Tokyo’s Kabuki-cho theater district.

Regards,
Paul Cotto

[paulcotto]

Here are a few frames while I work on the MPEG.

[paulcotto]

Here is a screen Shot of the VirtualDub filters I used>>



Here is a link to the VirtualDub Settings .vcf file itself>

http://smallgagefilms.com/images/NegativeFilters3.vcf

You need to download virtualdub, and the filters listed in the screenshot to make it work.

Regards,
Paul Cotto

[paulcotto]

Here is a short version of the clip I was talking about. Its about 30 megs in MPEG2 format>>

http://smallgagefilms.com/video/NegTestTokyo01.mpg

Let me know what you think.

Regards,
Paul Cotto

[Mikael]

Awesome!

[Scotness]

Thanks for sharing Paul - I'm keen to give it a go

Scot

[Mitch Perkins]

Thanks for sharing Paul - I'm keen to give it a go

Scot

Don't you mean give it a mango-a gogo? ~:?)

Yes, thanks for sharing, Paul. The negs are beautiful, magical and accessible all at once. I think everyone w/a DIYTK should give xferring them a mango-a-gogo!

Mitch

[paulcotto]

After all the talk over the years about how a CCD camera cant do a decent negative transfer because they lack the sensitivity to the proper color spectrum I find it ironic that it works just fine. I had almost given up on trying to do it myself. I realize its still not Rank quality but its close enough to keep pushing to see where it goes. After the initial transfer I take the uncompressed footage back into Virtualdub to fine tune the image. I just wish it had key framing and spline curves to tweak the output frame by frame. I could do it in Final Cut Studio if I convert to quicktime files first.

Regards,
Paul Cotto

[Mitch Perkins]

After all the talk over the years about how a CCD camera cant do a decent negative transfer because they lack the sensitivity to the proper color spectrum I find it ironic that it works just fine.

You too, eh?

I just wish it had key framing and spline curves to tweak the output frame by frame. I could do it in Final Cut Studio if I convert to quicktime files first.

Regards,
Paul Cotto

What about capturing right into FCP using physical filters for light source and saving invert etc for when it's on the timeline?

Mitch

[MovieStuff]

After all the talk over the years about how a CCD camera cant do a decent negative transfer because they lack the sensitivity to the proper color spectrum I find it ironic that it works just fine.....

Hmmm. I dunno. "Just fine" means, to me, that you can predictably get the color you want without contamination in the blacks. I have yet to see an example posted that achieves that goal. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a simple solution to the DIY neg problem so I'm on your side (we're working on it, too). But everything good I have seen posted has come as the result of so much effort and experimentation and is always presented with the caviat "I'm still working out the bugs...etc".

As such, I think it is premature to say that using a CCD to perform neg transfers works "just fine" unless one currently accepts a level of distortion in the color that most people shooting negative seriously would not accept. The color palette is either accurate or it isn't. We're all working toward that same goal, which is to use a CCD for neg telecine but, from where I sit, the color fidelity just isn't there yet. Hopefully, one day, but I would say that using a CCD to perform neg telecine still has some unresolved issues and, really, we don't know if those issues can ever be resolved. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Let us know how it goes!

Roger

[paulcotto]

The only problem is my Mac Mini only has Firewire input and I dont have an AJA IO, and even if I did the G4 would probably choke or the tiny drive in inside would. It only has one Firewire input so no external drive is available for capture. I am looking hard at a new iMac with an intel CPU since they have full size drives and 2, 1394 ports.

Regards,
Paul Cotto

After all the talk over the years about how a CCD camera cant do a decent negative transfer because they lack the sensitivity to the proper color spectrum I find it ironic that it works just fine.

You too, eh?

I just wish it had key framing and spline curves to tweak the output frame by frame. I could do it in Final Cut Studio if I convert to quicktime files first.

Regards,
Paul Cotto

What about capturing right into FCP using physical filters for light source and saving invert etc for when it's on the timeline?

Mitch

[paulcotto]

Then its back to my CMOS camera Datacine for more tests I am building a new one from a Bessler slide copier and the front half of a Bolex 18-5 projector. I promise to use these devises only for good and never for evil :evil:

Regards,
Paul Cotto

After all the talk over the years about how a CCD camera cant do a decent negative transfer because they lack the sensitivity to the proper color spectrum I find it ironic that it works just fine.....

Hmmm. I dunno. "Just fine" means, to me, that you can predictably get the color you want without contamination in the blacks. I have yet to see an example posted that achieves that goal. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a simple solution to the DIY neg problem so I'm on your side (we're working on it, too). But everything good I have seen posted has come as the result of so much effort and experimentation and is always presented with the caviat "I'm still working out the bugs...etc".

As such, I think it is premature to say that using a CCD to perform neg transfers works "just fine" unless one currently accepts a level of distortion in the color that most people shooting negative seriously would not accept. The color palette is either accurate or it isn't. We're all working toward that same goal, which is to use a CCD for neg telecine but, from where I sit, the color fidelity just isn't there yet. Hopefully, one day, but I would say that using a CCD to perform neg telecine still has some unresolved issues and, really, we don't know if those issues can ever be resolved. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Let us know how it goes!

Roger

[Mitch Perkins]

After all the talk over the years about how a CCD camera cant do a decent negative transfer because they lack the sensitivity to the proper color spectrum I find it ironic that it works just fine.....

Hmmm. I dunno. "Just fine" means, to me, that you can predictably get the color you want without contamination in the blacks.

Hey. You gotta leave some room for "perfect" -

http://www.google.ca/search?hs=ef0&hl=e ... arch&meta=

"Definitions of fine on the Web:

* all right: being satisfactory or in satisfactory condition; "an all-right movie"; "the passengers were shaken up but are all right"; "is everything all right?"; "everything's fine"; "things are okay"; "dinner and the movies had been fine"; "another minute I'd have been fine" "

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I've found so far that some scenes with the negs are a real challenge, but some come in right off the wire looking "almost perfect", which is in fact even better than "just fine".
I'm interested in what you mean by contamination in the blacks; do you mean there is some colour in the blacks that shouldn't be there? Cuz I've seen that in commercials and in TV shows and even in some movies on TV. And those guys aren't using a 3CCD video camera.
Meanwhile, I've also found that if you have, say, some red in the blacks, you can kill it dead with HSL colour offsets. Find the same red value in the circle marked "shadows", and click a dot in the opposite direction. No more red in the blacks.
In fact, the only bug I have to work out is crushing grain without losing resolution. May not be possible...

Here's a still from some 200T I shot and xferred. I was figuring out the new Bolex; it's a tick over-exposed. But the colours are just as I remember them, and I don't see any contamination in the blacks. Do you?



Here's a couple more. I don't think the colour is ~perfect~, mayhap a little thin, but that's CC, not capture. You could download these pics and CC them any way you like -



The multiple posts were me trying to get this one ^^ to show. It works if you paste it in the address bar. SNAFU.





Mitch

[Mitch Perkins]

double post

[Mitch Perkins]

triple post!