Super-8 Cities Collaborative Project

[npcoombs]

This is where we can discuss the Super-8 cities project rules, timeline, shooting styles, narration etc..etc..

[npcoombs]

Dear All,

Many thanks for your response to my posting. I did not expect such a diverse group of talented people with such interesting backgrounds and ideas.

This includes people in Sheffield, Cardiff, London, Seattle and Kampala, among others! Everyone is clearly capable of making a good film and as such there could be two choices:

1) I pick an individual to work with.

2) We expand the project from being a trilogy of shorts about cities, to a global project about cities across the world.

Since I am not financially in the position to be a lavish patron of the arts, the second option would mean self funding your small film and I would oversee, and coordinate everyones activities into an exciting global collaboration. Although if you can make a valid case for being really hard-up I might be able to help you out.

Let me explain the rules. The rules are designed to give the films some sort of aesthetic unity around the principle of a 'naive style' of observation documentary making harking back to the pre-war filmmaking. A touch point here are films like Patrick Keiller's LONDON (1994) that use a voiceover and simple compositions to bring out the heart of the place without any brash stylistic techniques. This forces the documentary maker to surrender a level of control and focus on the substance of the city and people. The voiceovers are intended to be in naturalistic style and intertwine your personal feelings about the place with the wider population and history that hangs on every street-corner.

Again, thanks for your interest. Please let me know if you are interested in the wider, global project.

[npcoombs]

Embryonic website for the project at:

http://democratfilm.angeltowns.net/super8cities.html

As soon as commitments are made I will put of contributers, bios, links, timelines and aims etc..

[Mitch Perkins]

Embryonic website for the project at:

http://democratfilm.angeltowns.net/super8cities.html

As soon as commitments are made I will put of contributers, bios, links, timelines and aims etc..

Nice site.
Always loved walking home from parties thru back alleys. Beautiful organic squalor. But above and beyond the shack-like sheds and garages the rules and straight lines of the city skyline are simultaneously visible. Help me out here...

Mitch

[npcoombs]

OK, since these films all have to have voiceovers of some kind so think about how you feel about the city, which places have made the strongest impression upon you. What is the history of the city? How did it evolve to what it is today? What is the natural environment? What are the local politics? All these could be questions that the film could tackle.

Thanks for getting things going on this thread.

[mathis]

For me my hometown Munich is a town of water. In particular lakes, encapsuled water as opposed to the endless water at sea. There are also the alps which gives an end to your view. Everything seems to limit you in some way. Also the style of housebuilding is so robust, it´s built for eternity. You constantly run against it.
So my idea is to make a film about Munich under water. That living in Munich is like living under water. Would there be a desire to jump out? (rethoric question, the answer is yes.) That would be the question driving the film. Where would you land if you jump? Maybe you would start flying?

[steve hyde]

...This is a cool idea, (Nathan's proposal) but I think it needs to be fleshed out a bit more and given the wide range of filmmakers that have expressed interest in participating I think it would be wise to let this *global* project develop organically. What I mean is alot some time for discussing what this project could become before commiting to what it is going to be......(does this make sense?)

Nathan,

I don't know anything about your production company, other than it having the word democratic in it. I have gathered that this is a *start-up* and that you are not a money-bags producer trying to find creative investment opportunities. I am under the impression that you are a student filmmaker (like most of us here) with some very interesting ideas and interesting tastes in cinema. I also get the sense that you are someone with an ability to follow through with your projects and some of that is evident on your website.

I'd be delighted to be a part of this collaborative effort. And with the spirit of some kind of new-fangled, global, democratic filmmaking mode of production I would like to make some suggestions regarding how a project of this kind might move forward. (unfortunately I don't have time to go into detail so I'll just get started with a few ideas)

Let's begin with the end in mind.

I know this is different than what you have proposed, but I'm going to just throw the idea out and see what happens.

I see the potential for a feature length DVD that is composed of short-form films made by different filmmakers in different cities. In some ways it might be similar to the Lumire tribute that came out a while back.

If we decide collaboratively to make a film like this a contract will need to be scribed and co-ownership of the rights to the intellecual property will need to be insured vis a vis the contract.

If we proceed with this co-owenership scenario, each filmmaker would be responsible for their own production expenses and would have a stake in profitting off of the final DVD product.....and so on and so forth. (details would need to be explicit in the contract)

In short, I think we could create a marketable product and it should be the goal to do this.

OR....

Nathan will be cutting a lot of big checks to get this thing started and will be providing his own contract for our consideration.


....just a few thoughts. What are the thoughts on this?


Steve

[npcoombs]

I don't know anything about your production company, other than it having the word democratic in it. I have gathered that this is a *start-up* and that you are not a money-bags producer trying to find creative investment opportunities. I am under the impression that you are a student filmmaker (like most of us here) with some very interesting ideas and interesting tastes in cinema. I also get the sense that you are someone with an ability to follow through with your projects and some of that is evident on your website.

A lot of things to address here. First, this has nothing to do with the production company (Workhorse TV) which equally has nothing to do with film and is about pursuing commercial, tv projects.

Secondly, I am not a student filmmaker. Just a filmmaker, non-amateur, non-professional, a kind of liminal figure so to speak.

Third, thanks for your comments about my films and resolve. I have had a hard time with the voiceover on my last project but generally i am quite productive in my endeavors.

I see the potential for a feature length DVD that is composed of short-form films made by different filmmakers in different cities. In some ways it might be similar to the Lumire tribute that came out a while back.

If we decide collaboratively to make a film like this a contract will need to be scribed and co-ownership of the rights to the intellecual property will need to be insured vis a vis the contract.

If we proceed with this co-owenership scenario, each filmmaker would be responsible for their own production expenses and would have a stake in profitting off of the final DVD product.....and so on and so forth.

OR....

Nathan will be cutting a lot of big checks to get this thing started and will be providing his own contract for our consideration.

It is a good idea to pull the films on to one DVD, but I see little commercial potential in it. I also do not see the need for rights unless there was a chance of a commercially viable product at the end of it (Although of course, if you think you could whip up interest in it then by all means please try)

Originally when I was thinking of looking for a collaborator for the project I was going to cover expenses but now there are a lot of people on board this is not really viable.

I hope people can find the collaborative process interesting enough in itself, without a commercial incentive.

Im not trying to dampen the flames as its great that you are thinking on such an ambitious level, I just personally don't think there is a market for it. If you would like to take it on though, draw up contracts etc.., then I will happily hand that side of things over to you and you could be the commercial manager of the project.

[npcoombs]

For me my hometown Munich is a town of water. In particular lakes, encapsuled water as opposed to the endless water at sea. There are also the alps which gives an end to your view. Everything seems to limit you in some way. Also the style of housebuilding is so robust, it´s built for eternity. You constantly run against it.
So my idea is to make a film about Munich under water. That living in Munich is like living under water. Would there be a desire to jump out? (rethoric question, the answer is yes.) That would be the question driving the film. Where would you land if you jump? Maybe you would start flying?

I really like this description; it sounds like the base for a quite poetic, but also light, reflection on the city.

Mathis - please email me if you are interested in taking part in the project. ncoombs@fastmail.co.uk

[redrice]

hi!

i have a couple of questions about format, constraints.

-- is anyone planning to edit on super 8? or are we all planning to finish on DV?

-- nathan, are you making any assumptions about the sound track apart from the fact that there will be some sort of personal voiceover? assuming we edit digitally, we can use as much sound as we like?

-- no pans or zooms: does that mean the camera should be locked down? or is hand-held shooting okay, so long as we just stand there like a tree and look at one thing at a time?

looking forward very much to seeing how this works out:

good luck to all!
peter

[steve hyde]

...well I am interested in working on projects that will "have a life" not something that is shown once at a film festival and disapears into the either.

Maybe the life of the films will be on-line....I don't know....That is fine if that is the case. I'm just trying to gauge what you have in mind for this project.

When you say a "10 minute short" I start thinking 100 minutes of super 8 edited down to 10 minutes. Maybe you are thinking about four carts of super 8 editited in camera or something like that. Both approaches are obviously very different and both have their own set of constraints.

I'm not sure why you think a documentary on cities would not be a marketable media product. Some documentary filmmakers make a living off of selling their short-form films directly to libraries without even an attempt to market them to anyone else. (San Francisco area filmmaker Jay Rosenblatt comes to mind.)

U.S. public libraries and university libraries have deep pockets and don't even blink at paying the US $70.00 that Rosenblatt charges for one of his 20 min films. When hundreds of libraries buy one of his films that he makes on a budget of say $1500.00, there is a high potential for return. Infact, a higher potential for return than many high-concept pictures that cost millions and never recover a penny.

This is all just food for thought of course. In the world of filmmaking I'm very much of the opinion that one has to spend money to make money doing it. So you are right, the final product will not be marketable if great care is not taken to make a "professional" (perhaps the buzz word of the day) documentary film.


...I'll just leave it at that for now...

Steve

[npcoombs]

-- is anyone planning to edit on super 8? or are we all planning to finish on DV?

-- nathan, are you making any assumptions about the sound track apart from the fact that there will be some sort of personal voiceover? assuming we edit digitally, we can use as much sound as we like?

-- no pans or zooms: does that mean the camera should be locked down? or is hand-held shooting okay, so long as we just stand there like a tree and look at one thing at a time?

Hi Peter, good to see you on the board. The plan is for everyone to end with an edited product on DV. There are no restrictions as to the use of sounds and music. Equally, there is no restriction pertaining to handheld vs tripod mounted - just as in the Dogme 95 rules. Although the rule against pans will prove restrictive for handheld cinematography.

[jaxshooter]

I asked a reporter,one who does primarily the city government beat, I was working with today what he would do the film on if he were given the project.I told him about the rules and what the goal fo the project was and he said the first thying he thought of was the river.The St.John's River bisects the city of Jacksonville and throughout the town's history it has been it's lifeblood.Major industries from N.Georgia to the very south end of the city and on into the southern counties have depended on the river.In the last fifteen to twenty years there have been major efforts to shift Jacksonville's economy from a product oriented economy to a service oriented econmy and this has had a major impact on these industries.

That's one idea I've had, I would love to see some projects like this done on other cities and how they were handled.There are so many other avenues this could take, my biggest task will be to condense it down.

[npcoombs]

When you say a "10 minute short" I start thinking 100 minutes of super 8 edited down to 10 minutes. Maybe you are thinking about four carts of super 8 editited in camera or something like that. Both approaches are obviously very different and both have their own set of constraints.

I'm not sure why you think a documentary on cities would not be a marketable media product. Some documentary filmmakers make a living off of selling their short-form films directly to libraries without even an attempt to market them to anyone else. (San Francisco area filmmaker Jay Rosenblatt comes to mind.)

U.S. public libraries and university libraries have deep pockets and don't even blink at paying the US $70.00 that Rosenblatt charges for one of his 20 min films. When hundreds of libraries buy one of his films that he makes on a budget of say $1500.00, there is a high potential for return. Infact, a higher potential for return than many high-concept pictures that cost millions and never recover a penny.

Hi Steve. Personally I think 100 minutes of shooting is major overkill. Firstly, 10 minutes is the max length - personally I am shooting a 5 minute film. Equally, this type of project (no actors, interviews, transient phenomenon etc..) lends itself to a low shooting ratio. I am going for 2.5:1 and being very selective with my shots. I know you shoot a lot so maybe you could also make use of some of your current footage.

Its very interesting to hear about those public libraries and what they pay for films. Is there any chance you could dig up more about this? To what extent would this require a certain formality on the part of the films or limit creative concepts?

I think, otherwise, there could be a market for flogging the DVD on this website, although if between all participants we spend something like $1500 on production costs, I cant see there being enough buyers to recoup that. Then again, it all helps. Perhaps this is something to start seriously discussing between everyone now.

On another topic, would it be possible for you to send me a pic and an outline concept of your film Steve?

[npcoombs]

That's one idea I've had, I would love to see some projects like this done on other cities and how they were handled.There are so many other avenues this could take, my biggest task will be to condense it down.

Its great that you are doing the kind of thinking and background research now. It will really show when the reels come back, all that prior thought. I would choose key locations, small examples that bring out something integral to the soul of the city.

My own concept is a little oblique (as always). I narrate a walk with my wife, as she strolls between different places in the city. As the film goes on she starts to get increasingly bored and ends up just siting or walking in circles or stamping on the spot. She is always in long shot and when not in frame I take in different parts of the city in wide angle. My narration talks from my experience of moving to the city, it quietude, lack of its own personality, the way people drive in and drive out with little allegiance to the city. This links in with wider observations about British modernism and small-town life in England.

A truly important film in this kind of urban anthropology is LONDON (1994) - you can watch clips at:

http://www.luxonline.org.uk/work/id/955563/index.html

Patrick Keiller is something of a master of this kind of Urban Anthropology. Well worth checking out the clips of all of his films. He has spent a lifetime doing this kind of stuff.