web page for my new short film

[mattias]

I disagree on this point. Films are always about *something*

i fully agree. that's sort of the point i was trying to make above, but you said it much better. since light entertainment was mentioned i'd like to take jokes as an example. if they are not funny they are not good. and they are funny because they are to the point. you "get" them. some are so subtle that it takes a long time to get them, but it's still not until you do get them that they start working.

/matt

[steve hyde]

Joseph Campbell's theory about "the heroes journey" came out of a study of world mythology. He took a broad sample and said - hey! :idea:

One thing all myths have in common is most of them tell the story of a heroes journey. Then he spent much of his career explaining how and why the heroes journey connects and how and why it works.

This is why all those CalArts filmmakers like Lukas and Coppola picked up on it and said :idea: This is a recipe book for movies!

I think it is strange when people argue that it is too formulaic and artificial. I totally disagree. In its most basic form the theory of heroe's journey suggests that:

Life is a journey from birth to death.
Things happen on that journey
We learn things.
We meet people that inspire us.
We encounter antagonism
We make choices based on inspiration, desire and antagonism
The choices have positive and negative outcomes.


How and why the outcomes play out is really interesting. We need these kinds of stories. If we didn't have stories and mythology we would be dumb as stumps. Stories are as important as the air we breath and the water we drink. They nourish us and corrupt us. They make us who we are.

It's not just Batman and Star Wars that can be read as a heros journey. Even a film like Krystof Kieslowski's "Red" can be read as a hero's journey. She (the central character) is the most potent kind of hero the way I see it. She uses her moral compass to navigate the world, but then discovers that there are all sorts of compromises that must be made and she has to make those compromising choices that are so difficult to make.. She does a pretty good job. I see her actions as pretty damn heroic in the end....anyway, that is an example from a very good narrative film.... That said, I bet the script for "Red" is a boring read. I'd like to read it.

Steve

[Plastik]

It's not just Batman and Star Wars that can be read as a heros journey. Even a film like Krystof Kieslowski's "Red" can be read as a hero's journey. She (the central character) is the most potent kind of hero the way I see it. She uses her moral compass to navigate the world, but then discovers that there are all sorts of compromises that must be made and she has to make those compromising choices that are so difficult to make.. She does a pretty good job. I see her actions as pretty damn heroic in the end....anyway, that is an example from a very good narrative film.... That said, I bet the script for "Red" is a boring read. I'd like to read it.
Steve

I couldn't agree more. She sure is my hero

Love that film.

[steve hyde]

..I know - the film is quite a portrait... Easy to fall in love with a character like her.

I like the joke analogy for a lot of reasons. One thing I like about it is that it also highlights the importance of delivery. Delivery is one thing screenplays cannot capture. Some jokes are not funny on paper at all. Then with the right delivery it becomes hilarious.

I think for filmmaking it makes sense to use screenplays as a framework, but then allow lots of space for artistry in the delivery too..

Steve

[steve hyde]

Thanks for all the feedback and time in reading the script guys - I spose that something I'm trying to say Steve is - well there's 2 things - one is to show the nature of society at the time, and the other and main one is to show that family relationships and love can extend in ways you may not have thought of - past the cultural and family practises of the day.
Scot

Somehow I missed this post. Scot. I was too busy blathering and not listening carefully....

Your reply doesn't give me much to go on though. Saying that you want to communicate the *nature* of society at that time is really vague. That could mean anything. Cool if you are still working it out.

You say: relationships and love *extending* in ways I haven't thought of...pretty vague too. I'm not sure what you are getting at.

You are saying that you want to express the "cultural and family practices of the day."

I'm asking a very basic question that I hope helps you flesh out your ideas: *what are the cultural practices?* *How do they impact family relations?* and most important" *why do they impact family relations?*

If you had to stand before a judge in a court of law. (like your character in "In My Image") and tell the story of how and why this vague set of cultural and family practices had an imapact on Rebbecca. How would you make that case?

Steve

[toby_tools]

Scott'
I read your short script. I like it. It has the same feel as In My Image from a writing point of view. I think it shows the attitude of the time regarding rock n roll. I would like to se her meet a new guy or something before leaving the concert. So you get the "it was worth the risk thing".
Or maybe your point is, life isn't always happy endings. At any rate
I look forward to seeing it.
Toby

[MovieStuff]

What about light entertainment? Films don't always have to be about something. It's just meant to be an amusing exploration of a certain time and place and values, with some substance in the family relationships.

Scot

I disagree on this point. Films are always about *something* One thing that isn't talked about much when we discuss the art of directing is specifically who and what is being directed. A director isn't just directing actors - a director directs viewers. Directing viewers toward *something*.

But that "something" isn't always the linear sum of the parts of the film; a "journey" isn't always required from point A to B. In fact, that "something" isn't necessarily in the film at all but is brought to the film by the viewing audience in the form of experiences and memories that bubble to the surface as a result of watching the movie. "Nashville" is a good example. So is the movie "MASH" or "American Graffitti."

I could be misreading his script but I think that Scott is trying to create a moment in time that the viewer happens upon and is immersed in for a short period. Like arriving at a party that's already in progress, walking through the living room and exiting the patio. The viewer isn't supposed to be guided as much as just be witness to the events in an uncontrolled fashion.

But the comments I've seen so far are sort of like saying that the brown suit he's made isn't a very good blue suit. You have to appreciate it for what it is, not what you want it to be. In that respect, I don't think that Scott is missing but point at all, though I do feel his script needs to pick up the pace a bit for a short.

Roger

[mattias]

But that "something" isn't always the linear sum of the parts of the film; a "journey" isn't always required from point A to B. In fact, that "something" isn't necessarily in the film at all but is brought to the film by the viewing audience

i don't think anyone has suggested otherwise actually. any piece of art is always created several times, and where most of the magic happens varies, bu the magic is pretty much always that of a journey. you start somewhere, you experience something, and you end up somewhere.

/matt

[steve hyde]

But that "something" isn't always the linear sum of the parts of the film; a "journey" isn't always required from point A to B. In fact, that "something" isn't necessarily in the film at all but is brought to the film by the viewing audience in the form of experiences and memories that bubble to the surface as a result of watching the movie. "Nashville" is a good example. So is the movie "MASH" or "American Graffitti."

I could be misreading his script but I think that Scott is trying to create a moment in time that the viewer happens upon and is immersed in for a short period. Like arriving at a party that's already in progress, walking through the living room and exiting the patio. The viewer isn't supposed to be guided as much as just be witness to the events in an uncontrolled fashion.

But the comments I've seen so far are sort of like saying that the brown suit he's made isn't a very good blue suit. You have to appreciate it for what it is, not what you want it to be. In that respect, I don't think that Scott is missing but point at all, though I do feel his script needs to pick up the pace a bit for a short.

Roger

I like the brown suit makes for an ugly blue suit analogy. I would like to extend it a bit and say that a screenplay is not a film and a film is not a screenplay. We have been asked to read it and offer reactions to it.

I will argue a film is always a journey. Always a journey in time and space. Even if I yank all the film out of a super 8 cart - expose it to sunlight - develop it and then scratch the emulsion with a wire brush and put it on a projector. When I ask someone to look at it, I'm asking them to go on a journey. In this case a 2 minute 3 second flicker fest, but still a journey. The whole point of making films is to create a kind of journey.

The good directors are the ones that *direct* that journey toward something explicit that they want a viewer to experience. The whole point of writing a screenplay is to be specific about what the journey will be like.

The screenplay is its own work of art and should be judged as an idea for the screen. Is the story about set decorations or is it about something psychological? I am under the impression that Scot is working on a classical psychological tale, but the psychology isn't really fleshed out in the script that I read.

Scot has made a feature film and several shorts. I'm sure he will make the film what he wants it to be. I'm just trying to be helpful by being a pain in the ass.. ;-) I hope he - and anyone else reading this - will find something useful in what I said. It is damn hard to write a substantive story. More specifically, damn hard to do a substantive piece of research and communicate the findings of the research in a story.

I still think the best way to review a screenplay is to ask the screenwriter to pitch the idea in no more than 10 sentences. If there is substance in the ten sentences then you know it is a developed idea. If it is vague and goes on about *nature* without explaining *the nature of what?* and talks about *extending* family relations without an explanation of *how*, it is generally best to tell the screenwriter to work out the *how* and *why* and come back later.

Filmmaking is a different matter the way I am seeing it. You don't even need a screenplay to make a film, but we do need good ideas. Sometimes those ideas are discovered during the filming process. In some ways that is a better way to work than from a screenplay. It's more organic and open ended. It sounds like Scot is planning a combination of approaches with his Rebbecca project. That is cool.

all the best,

Steve

[Scotness]

Hi guys thanks for all your feedback - believe it or not all of it has been valueable to me - I do agree with Roger's Blue suit/brown suit analogy -- but the other comments are useful and Steve you make some really good points which I know will help me with focussing ideas in the screen writing process, although obviously at the moment this script is pretty much how I like it.

Funny thing is when I last looked at Hold Me Tight about a year ago it was exactly as I wanted it and I couldn't understand people's comments about it - then I had to wait a year to get the music, forgot about it - and watched it for the first time the other day - and now can see perfectly clearly what they're talking about, and agree with them and will be making necessary cuts.

Maybe I'll agree with some people on this then - don't know - but I'm going to find out.

Anwyay I've had a really bad flu for the last few days - and have had a fever for about 3 days -- so more later....


Scot