What should we call the widescreen version of super 8?

[mattias]

wahiba beat me to it.

/matt

[wahiba]

It was too obvious to miss - but I did vote for Wide-8 as a suitable name.

[FILM-THURSO]

REFLEX- we could easily change the credit for Super Duper by submitting scans of my own footage shot in 1985/86 which can prove the point by the DATE CODING on the film edge. It doesn't matter who made a feature and stuck it on the web if a proven date can be applied to an invention there is no doubt who the creator is.
I personally don't think I was first in the 5 minutes worth that I shot before heading into sound film and Polaramex imaging. As is, any one of us will have had this idea about filing out gates to make use of the extra space. It's no big thing!

A feature film or short filmed in Wide-Supa-Dupa-Panaramic-Scanoscope-Xtra is not a revolution in cinema by a long way and widening the gate doesn't make the film an instant breakthrough because cinema has always done this kind of thing. The obvious move being if it can be done on 16mm why not do the same to super 8 and so there it is.
All super duper did was make a feature film which could have been made without the extra space or could have used 1.5, 1.75 or 2 x anamorphic to achieve the wide screen. If higher resolution was the only motivation behind the project they could have used 9.5mm- still a small format but with a frame size nearly the same as 16mm.

When there is blank emulsion to the side of the main frame area it is logical to make use of it. For most of us, this may just have been a fun experiment. You've got to consider how many of us make feature films- very few from what I've seen so far but in our projects widening a frame is no way to make our mark on the industry. The cost is also something which prevents many of us going into feature production no matter what our preffered format.

The credit due is for the making of a feature film on Super 8 and the effort made to promote it and the super 8 format itself but as the website states that they 'invented' the wider format they had better be quick to disclaim that. I haven't seen the film but one has to ask does the format choice make it any better as a film- does it help the telling of the story- what aspect of the production made it nessecary to develope a wide format for the picture- was it nessecary in the first place- could you lob off the extra width and still have a good film?

When it comes to wide formats on Super 8 those of us who make stridant efforts to maximise the capability of the format all deserve a pat on the back. In fact if you're using super 8 in any capacity I say WELL DONE EVERYBODY- Keep up the good work!

Whatever format of super 8 you use the thing that will get you noticed is a well told story- not a wide format!

Personally I love wide formats but I won't be making all my films that way just because I can! 8O

[reflex]

As is, any one of us will have had this idea about filing out gates to make use of the extra space. It's no big thing!

When it comes to wide formats on Super 8 those of us who make stridant efforts to maximise the capability of the format all deserve a pat on the back. In fact if you're using super 8 in any capacity I say WELL DONE EVERYBODY

I think this hits the nail on the head. I would love to see thousands of people shooting wide format Super 8 -- and sharing their ideas and discoveries.

reflex

[woods01]

Ultra 8? What is "Ultra" about it?
Wide 8 is the way to go, because the image is "wide", or at least wider than normal 8mm film.

Well its about as Ultra as Super 8 is Super But given how
so many film formats have silly names like Super 35, Stereoscope
Grandscope and even Ultrascope and Ultra Panavision 70. I think
Ultra 8 is a name in keeping with the tradition of overblown film
names but not as long winded as Super Duper. But wide 8 is
pretty straight forward and simple name. Quite effective if not as
colourful.

[stef]

Talked to a guy, who worked at Bolex Swiss for around twenty years, he told me, they did gate enlargements 20 years ago, I think, noone did it earlier, they called it SUPER 8b (b for bright).

Best regards, stefan

[FILM-THURSO]

Perhaps no company widened gates earlier than 20 years ago but then as a kid I noticed that any time I had a cold it would develope into Asthma. Eleven years later doctors announced a link between the cold and the onset of Asthma attacks. My film is date coded 1985/86- which makes me at least even with Bolex

[Bunner]

I agree. Anything is better than super-duper 8. That is the dumbest name I have ever heard of. Its almost a joke; how can we sell the idea of widescreen super8 to professionals, those who shoot as a hobby, and potential newbie's if it's referred to as 'SuperDuper 8'. I would vote 'wide 8' or how about 'Super 8 wide'.

[MovieStuff]

how can we sell the idea of widescreen super8 to professionals, those who shoot as a hobby, and potential newbie's if it's referred to as 'SuperDuper 8'.

Well, at the risk of being declared a heretic, professionals aren't going to start shooting super 8, regardless of what it's called, simply because they get a wider image. There are simply too many issues with unreliable cameras, carts and grain to make it attractive for anything other than the "home movie look" within the commercial film making process.

Now, before everyone starts throwing stones, I am not suggesting that creating beautiful imagery is impossible with super 8. On the contrary, it is more than possible and super 8 can produce some incredibly terrific looking footage as posted by Mattias, Andreas, Santo, Jukka and others. The issue is budget, and the money saved by using super 8 in a real deadline based, high stakes project isn't enough to offset the potential problems with using super 8, which are very real. I mean, let's face it: We shoot super 8 because it's fun and makes us feel good while shooting it, not because we relish posting about how it let us down time and again, which it so often does. We persevere despite the known problems with super 8, not because it has glaring advantages overlooked by professionals.

I love super 8 but, when shooting a commercial project where there's a real budget and someone else is footing the bill, I would just shoot 16mm and get on with it. Any "pro" that would willingly embrace the idea of risking an entire commercial shoot on super 8 would most likely be given his or her walking papers, regardless of how wide the image is. Will a better name make it more reliable or so vastly more cost effective that the production community will suddenly start showing it more respect? Not likely. As it stands, virtually of all the "pro" super 8 I have seen intermixed with larger formats has been bastardized to look worse than standard super 8 already offers, so there is no indication that the "pros" are even remotely interested in getting a better, wider, less grainy image from super 8.

So what if it's call "SuperDuper 8"? The name isn't the issue. In fact, there isn't any issue unless we make one out of it. Super 8 is what it is. The only issue is when we try to fit it into larger shoes that have already been filled.

Roger
http://www.moviestuff.tv

[Mitch Perkins]

[quote="FILM-THURSO"]Wow, How nice to see that Film-Thurso's Super 8 Xtra is leading the way with Wide 8. That's one in the eye for supadupa who seemed to think no-one else had the idea before them. We ALL had the bloody idea before them-
[snip]

Who is "we" in this instance?

[Mitch Perkins]

[quote="FILM-THURSO"]Wow, How nice to see that Film-Thurso's Super 8 Xtra is leading the way with Wide 8. That's one in the eye for supadupa who seemed to think no-one else had the idea before them. We ALL had the bloody idea before them-
[snip]

Who is "we" in this instance?

Mitch

[Mitch Perkins]

how can we sell the idea of widescreen super8 to professionals, those who shoot as a hobby, and potential newbie's if it's referred to as 'SuperDuper 8'.

[Snip for space]

So what if it's call "SuperDuper 8"? The name isn't the issue. In fact, there isn't any issue unless we make one out of it. Super 8 is what it is. The only issue is when we try to fit it into larger shoes that have already been filled.

Roger
http://www.moviestuff.tv

Way to go Roger! Amen to every last word.
I chose "Super Duper 8" *because* it's silly! Unfortunately, having a sense of humour really ticks some peole off. The designation was intended for use in our promotional material *only*, and not as some global movemment to convince film professionals of that which is not true.
You know what though? Once someone calls you "stinky", "stinky" you are. IOW, once a name sticks, it's hard to shake it off, no?

Mitch
PS - I know I'm not sposeta vote, but why not just call it SD8, (a nice companion designation to DS8), and *pretend we don't know* what the letters stand for?

[christoph]

Talked to a guy, who worked at Bolex Swiss for around twenty years, he told me, they did gate enlargements 20 years ago, I think, noone did it earlier, they called it SUPER 8b (b for bright).

that was ruedi muster then, and the b probably stood for "breit" (ie wide)
++ christoph ++

[Rick Palidwor]

Talked to a guy, who worked at Bolex Swiss for around twenty years, he told me, they did gate enlargements 20 years ago, I think, noone did it earlier, they called it SUPER 8b (b for bright).

that was ruedi muster then, and the b probably stood for "breit" (ie wide)
++ christoph ++

That's it exactly Christoph. I mentioned it in another post. Martin Baugarten informed me, but the word he used was "Breitwand". I don't know German so you can clarify the difference.

I think it's amusing that people seem to be pretty worked up about this. And I had no idea there was so much pent-up hostility towards the name. I have noted people bad-mouthing the name a little here and there but then someone else would post, using "super-duper 8" in a sentence as if it's an accepted term, which would make me smile.

I agree with Roger: no matter what we call it most people don't take super 8 seriously. And for the record, when I tell people I am shooting "super-duper 8" (and I tell a lot of people, mostly filmmakers) no one has ever dismissed me because of the name or made any comment whatsoever, other than: "wow, that's cool" (referring to the general idea) and they seem to find the name amusing, which suits me fine and for that reason I will continue to use it.

Cheers
Rick

[downix]

Super Duper 8 works for me.

I'm actually trying to get the exact specs down for my own amusement.