Is It Wrong to Use S8 to Shoot Home Movies Only?

Post by **tfunch24** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 12:07 am

I had an interesting email discussion with someone about how S8 should be used. I feel that S8 should be used for whatever you want to shoot, regardless of what you intend to do with it. The person to whom I spoke felt otherwise. Although S8 may have been the home movie format choice for nearly twenty-five years, he felt that today S8 was more the tool of professional filmmakers. Warming to the topic, he pointed out that the high cost of purchasing/processing S8 film made the idea of personal home use foolish and that video would be a better alternative for home movies. He did not touch on the fact that a roll of K40, properly stored and not projected too often, will last 100 years before beginning to lose its color nor did he bring up video's short lifespan. Ektachrome and the various black-and-white stocks last twice as long as a video tape.

I don't agree with the person's argument. I do not see how (and he did not explain how) shooting S8 home movies is foolish. The high cost is worth it to many S8 shooters who shoot their own home movies. One person's high cost is another person's bargain-basement low price. If a person is willing to pay for the stock and the processing, whose business is it to tell her/him that using that cart of K40 to shoot a home movie of her/his daughter is wrong? I am sure that many other people on this and other 8mm boards would agree with me. However I think that other people feel otherwise. For example, last Autumn, in a thread titled "K40 and Stadium Lighting," I mentioned that I would be shooting footage of marching band competitions. The first response I got was from someone who demanded to know why I was using S8 to film such events.

So, is S8 the sole domain of low-budget filmmakers or can it be the alternative to the four-hour-long wedding home videos that currently plague the world? What do you think?

Tom

Post by **S8 Booster** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 12:16 am

Shooting homemovies on S8 are great and they will enhance as time go by (and memory dwindle - "flash memory"), besides it is very useful for shot practising, for me anyway.

Whatever you like to shoot on S8 is OK but the homemovies will grow on you as time goes by.

R

Post by **Nick** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 12:35 am

Tom,

I agree with you. Use S8 however you see fit. Despite how someone else feels or says it can be used. You could use video but you don't have to limit your creativity to one tool for one type or situation. I use S8 for my home movies also because I feel it is a better storage medium.

My 2 cents...
Nick

Post by **marc** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:19 am

The important thing is that you use it and therefore maintain, continue and hopefully increase the demand for this product. The reason that so many people use it for filmmaking is because it is asthetically superior to video. If you use it for home movies in place of video for no other reason than because of it's pictorial quality, that's as a good a reason as any, if not the best reason.

Post by **marc** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:33 am

As a follow up response on the last post, i'd like to say that this forum is called 8mm filmshooting not 8mm filmmaking. The advantage you have over filmmakers is that you do not necessarily have to shoot at 24 frames per second. As a home movie maker, you can economize and shoot at 18 fps or, in the case of regular 8mm, you can shoot at 16fps which will be your most economical choice especially if you have a camera like the bolex H-8 that can take 100 foot spools. These spools give you more for your money than the 25 foot spools. I would like to complete an independent film someday but, if that does not happen, I am not limiting myself to using my equipment for just this purpose. I paid for it and I will get whatever use out of it that I can.

Post by **DriveIn** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:52 am

Even with the modern options for filming (or videotaping), I think home movies are still a number one use for 8mm. The advantage of home movies versus filmmaking is there really is not a whole lot of need to cut and edit home movies. What you see is what you get the most fun out of viewing. :roll: (If that makes sense to anyone....or if someone can say it more eloquently). If it weren't for 8mm, I wouldn't have some of the memories I do have, and I wish I kept on filming long after the camera was put away. If I get back into actual filmming, home movies are the first place the camera will be used.

Documentary filming is probably my second choice for 8mm over home movies.

Post by **Lucas Lightfeat** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:52 am

Sony DCR TRV30E PAL - Ã‚Â£1000, Tottenham Court Rd., London

Nizo 6080 or your choice of Super8 - Ã‚Â£200, Ebay

This leaves Ã‚Â£800 for filmstock - K40 with free processing from http://www.photomart.co.uk is Ã‚Â£6 each for 24 cartridge purchase including free delivery = 133 cartridges!!!! Now at 18fps you get 3mins 20 seconds - that's 7 HOURS and 40 MINUTES of Super8 footage on a really excellent camera with superb optics for the price of a standard miniDV camera.

(1 GBP is about 1.50 USD/EURO)

My conclusion: Super8 isn't expensive at all.....not by the standards of DV.

Lucas

Post by **crimsonson** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 2:29 am

Too bad for your friends. There are countless renowned American and international filmmakers who begun their craft with S8/8. From Avante Garde to mainstream filmmakers, S8 is format in which many understood the basics of motion photography. Jose Luiz Rodriguez of Mexico was in fact just featured in Film Comment [America's Cahiers du Cinema].
If anything, the one thing that is consistent about the masters of the last 30 years - all of them in one form or another created art with S8/8.

Post by **Old Uncle Barry** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:04 pm

8O
Well said everyone and remember this: Your Super8 home movies are far more compatible worldwide than ANY video format.
Remember also that your film memories will last a lifetime.This is proven in the UK by television stations broadcasting historic home movie footage for all to see.
Film really is long term.

andy · Post by **andy** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:23 pm

despite having a 3 chip sony camcorder all my home movies are on film either 8 or 16mm......

YouTube · Post by **wahiba** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 2:09 pm

:lol: If I had the kit, and the money, I might even shoot on 35mm!

Actually at one time I considered this actually to be a daft idea. I knew that 35mm clcokwork Bell and Howell Cameras could be found, but the thought of a cinema projector in the living room was a bit much. Then I saw a 35mm projector that seemd to be an upgraded 16mm so obviously it is possible.

Another idea for when the lottery comes up when I will be able to do it and compare the results with my knew HD Widescreen camcorder!

Post by **filmbuff** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 2:26 pm

I too have had many conversations with the regular folk. First impression is always suprise when they find out Super 8 film is still being made. Most seem interested in shooting home movies in Super 8 but the catch seemed to be that it must have sound. On top of that the 'extra' cost for transfer to video was a serious issue. The average person simply does not want to thread a projector.

If Kodak would advertise just once to see what would happen. I think it will suprise them.

Post by **jean** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 2:34 pm

i read an interesting article in a german newspaper praising s8. One of the ironic points the author made was recalling the s8 family evenings, when the film of someones birthday party was an awful, but short 3min, or max 9min session. Nowadays, he's suffering a awful 6hour real-time video (being impolite and leave will be no option, I guess

)

One of the real inconveniences of s8 is the 15m cartridge. Your mileage may vary, but I usually am torn between putting in a new cartridge or risk losing a nice shot because the last 2m perhaps will not be enough

OK, for the home movies. I use s8 simply because I don't have any video cameras

On the other hand, s8 actually is much more expensive than video. S8 is measured in minutes, video in hours. Once you have your vidcam, you won't pay much for operating it. S8 is the contrary, the cameras are very cheap, the film isn't.

Pro s8: You'll think twice before shooting anything, that will probably leverage better results. Projecting is much more fun than TV screens or video files on your pc.

Con s8: You might regret not having filmed certain things due to limited film.. while on video, you could have been collecting much more "raw" material for editing. If you plan to share the film over the net, or edit on computer - i'm afraid that a digicam is much more convenient. No telecine, just dump your stuff on the pc. I did not yet telecine anything, but i'm afraid that this is a big quality equalizer when it comes to compare both media.

..just do what's more fun for you

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 2:46 pm

hm, considering sound.. i would always prefer to record sound separately. Don't know how this is with video, but cutting and editing footage that contains both seems to be a serious pita, at least for me.

Otherwise, when your goal is to not edit anything, eg walking all day with a cam on your neck and obtain an unspoiled, unmanipulated real time documentary, then video is your medium! And just think about the possibilities - like punishing relatives, children, friends! "You must see my latest 4 hour video film!" Rest assured that these pesky visitors will never again get closer than 10km to your house

..unless you're living an absolutely sensational life, of course. In this case, I'll deliberately d/l the 4 hours tape

Post by **S8 Booster** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:04 pm

Sound, in the old days with the sound S8 carts

it was, for family filming, a practice available that I used and it worked beyond expectations:

Syncronize your eyes and ears and "edit in camera."

With some practice this worked very well.
Simpley do not stop filming in a mid sentence or in rapid movements of the object.If you have to break off shooting choose a zoom to wide or something.

By syncronizing these factors good results were avaiable and very little post editing was required unless the requirements were ""real PRO".

R