Fomapan redux

[aj]

Yes, David. Lab work is important.
But I've processed two rolls of Fomapan on the same soup at the same time and results were quite different between the two.
Being a Fomapan lover myself, I always thought that it would be preferable to raise the prices a bit and make a quality controlled product. Perhaps, they would still be producing their 35mm film if a more consistent product was offered.

This is dangerously stupid and/or laughable.

You claim to detect production variations based on DIY processing of two films using the same developer???

Foma is a well known manufacturer of all kinds of industrials films like Dental X-ray, X-ray exposure detectors. Do you think to suggest they cannot manufacter film within limits which you as an amateur can detect they cannot maintain?

Your processing is sloppy and that is the only thing what went wrong.

[avortex]

Thanks for your nice words, André.
It's not normal to process several rolls of the same film on the same soup at the same time and get very different results.
In fact, I'm not the only one detecting big inconsistencies and defects between Fomapan R100 batches. You can find plenty online (take a look at Apug, for exemple).
But as I seem to make stupid claims and my film processing -of which you have no idea- is sloppy, you can read what Dr5 (people known for their sloppy processing) says about it:

http://www.dr5.com/blackandwhiteslide/fomar.html
Scroll down to the bottom of the page.

Besides, I had the same problem with this batch of 35mm rolls and Foma themselves recognized that there was a problem and refunded my money. Kudos for them.
There's also an extensive thread about this on Apug, where more people had been affected. Probably, they were just stupid or making sloppy processing as me.

[David M. Leugers]

Not to throw gasoline on a fire, but I am still mystified about the availability of Fomapan DS8mm film in 100ft rolls. When I could not find any for sale in the USA, I searched the web page for Fomapan to see if they still made it. I kept checking back over time but still it was not available in 100 ft rolls. So today I decided to check it again and here is what I found.

http://www.foma.cz/en/catalogue-fomapan ... detail-273

Look closely and you see that according to Foma on their own website they only show DS8mm being available in 10 meter rolls... or maybe it was just my sloppy web searching skills...

Andre if you have consistently good results with Fomapan we'd like to hear about it. This film stock is so bizarre in its "Dr Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde" performance. While we root for Fomapan to become the film stock we think it can be (and sometimes is), many have given up on it especially where there is another option.

[avortex]

Strange. At their webshop is listed with the 30m/100ft rolls:
http://fomaobchod.cz/schwarzweißumkehrfilme/

Perhaps they're just selling the remanent stock and no more film is being produced. But that's just a guess...

[slashmaster]

Not to throw gasoline on a fire, but I am still mystified about the availability of Fomapan DS8mm film in 100ft rolls. When I could not find any for sale in the USA, I searched the web page for Fomapan to see if they still made it. I kept checking back over time but still it was not available in 100 ft rolls. So today I decided to check it again and here is what I found.

http://www.foma.cz/en/catalogue-fomapan ... detail-273

Look closely and you see that according to Foma on their own website they only show DS8mm being available in 10 meter rolls... or maybe it was just my sloppy web searching skills...

Andre if you have consistently good results with Fomapan we'd like to hear about it. This film stock is so bizarre in its "Dr Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde" performance. While we root for Fomapan to become the film stock we think it can be (and sometimes is), many have given up on it especially where there is another option.

Here you go http://www.fomafoto.com/index.php/shop/ ... 0ft-detail

[nikonr10]

Thanks for your nice words, André.
It's not normal to process several rolls of the same film on the same soup at the same time and get very different results.
In fact, I'm not the only one detecting big inconsistencies and defects between Fomapan R100 batches. You can find plenty online (take a look at Apug, for exemple).
But as I seem to make stupid claims and my film processing -of which you have no idea- is sloppy, you can read what Dr5 (people known for their sloppy processing) says about it:

http://www.dr5.com/blackandwhiteslide/fomar.html
Scroll down to the bottom of the page.

Besides, I had the same problem with this batch of 35mm rolls and Foma themselves recognized that there was a problem and refunded my money. Kudos for them.
There's also an extensive thread about this on Apug, where more people had been affected. Probably, they were just stupid or making sloppy processing as me.

Avortex did you use the Foma B/W soup kit or your own home made mix or so what bleach did you use ?

[aj]

Thanks for your nice words, André.
It's not normal to process several rolls of the same film on the same soup at the same time and get very different results.
In fact, I'm not the only one detecting big inconsistencies and defects between Fomapan R100 batches. You can find plenty online (take a look at Apug, for exemple).
But as I seem to make stupid claims and my film processing -of which you have no idea- is sloppy, you can read what Dr5 (people known for their sloppy processing) says about it:

http://www.dr5.com/blackandwhiteslide/fomar.html
Scroll down to the bottom of the page.

Besides, I had the same problem with this batch of 35mm rolls and Foma themselves recognized that there was a problem and refunded my money. Kudos for them.
There's also an extensive thread about this on Apug, where more people had been affected. Probably, they were just stupid or making sloppy processing as me.

Let us cite the Internet. The world is flat, nobody went to the moon and JFK wasn't murdered by Lee Harvey Oswald.
Other fun findings from the Internet, supposedly Nikon wasn't capable of setting the exposure system on the F90s propeply and the autofocus on the F100 was off too. People at home could demonstrate such with a scrap of paper and a ruler

[avortex]

Avortex did you use the Foma B/W soup kit or your own home made mix or so what bleach did you use ?

Fomapan R100 is a very grateful film that reacts well with a lot of first developer combinations. It really proves that it's the only film on the market that was designed specifically for reversal.
The key is to avoid using any silver halide solvent on the first developer:

AGFA NEUTOL NE 1+4 / 12' @20ºC - This formula was published here by member "livio" several years ago. It works fine. Neutol is also for sale under different names (Agfa Print, Adox Adotol,...)
ILFORD UNIVERSAL PQ 1+5 / 12' @20ºC - Same results.
TETENAL DOKUMOL 1+9 / 8' @20ºC - Cool neutral and very contrasty.
TETENAL DOKUMOL 1+7 / 8' @20ºC - I haven't tested this option, but it's reported to work fine too. For me, 1+9 is OK.
KODAK D11 1+1 / 10' @24ºC - Excellent gray scale, sharper than Neutol, but lacks an adequate maximum density for my taste.
FOMADON LQR, the developer included at the Foma Kit, works great too. It behaves in a similar way than Neutol and it's dirt cheap if you buy it separately from the kit.

The problem with the kit is that it includes, due to legal reasons, a Permanganate bleach. This film reacts better to a Dichromate based one, and I recommend this option. Well, almost every film reacts better to a dichromate bleach: it gives superior picture quality and is always reliable.

If you're picky about your processing and enjoy mixing your own solutions, there's a formula designed by an Australian photographer ("Athiril", at the Apug forum) that is based on D-19, but with less sulfite and more hydroquinone. It really has the edge on Dmax and general picture quality.
I use his formula, as the one I normally use for processing B&W slides is too caustic for this emulsion. Here it is:

Metol 2g
Sodium sulfite 30g
Hydroquinone 10g
Sodium Carbonate 50g (anhydrous)
Potassium Bromide 5g

Dilute 1:3 before use. Athiril uses it for 5' @27ºC, but I use 7' @24ºC.

Really, Fomapan R100 is my favourite B&W stock ever. Love its atmospherical qualities. When the batch is fine, it's pure magic.

Hope this helps!

[avortex]

Let us cite the Internet. The world is flat, nobody went to the moon and JFK wasn't murdered by Lee Harvey Oswald.
Other fun findings from the Internet, supposedly Nikon wasn't capable of setting the exposure system on the F90s propeply and the autofocus on the F100 was off too. People at home could demonstrate such with a scrap of paper and a ruler

Oh, Yes! The internet! The place to troll other people's posts without giving any useful information, insulting them and wanting a lot of explanations about their opinion in exchange.

[nikonr10]

Avortex did you use the Foma B/W soup kit or your own home made mix or so what bleach did you use ?

Fomapan R100 is a very grateful film that reacts well with a lot of first developer combinations. It really proves that it's the only film on the market that was designed specifically for reversal.
The key is to avoid using any silver halide solvent on the first developer:

AGFA NEUTOL NE 1+4 / 12' @20ºC - This formula was published here by member "livio" several years ago. It works fine. Neutol is also for sale under different names (Agfa Print, Adox Adotol,...)
ILFORD UNIVERSAL PQ 1+5 / 12' @20ºC - Same results.
TETENAL DOKUMOL 1+9 / 8' @20ºC - Cool neutral and very contrasty.
TETENAL DOKUMOL 1+7 / 8' @20ºC - I haven't tested this option, but it's reported to work fine too. For me, 1+9 is OK.
KODAK D11 1+1 / 10' @24ºC - Excellent gray scale, sharper than Neutol, but lacks an adequate maximum density for my taste.
FOMADON LQR, the developer included at the Foma Kit, works great too. It behaves in a similar way than Neutol and it's dirt cheap if you buy it separately from the kit.

The problem with the kit is that it includes, due to legal reasons, a Permanganate bleach. This film reacts better to a Dichromate based one, and I recommend this option. Well, almost every film reacts better to a dichromate bleach: it gives superior picture quality and is always reliable.

If you're picky about your processing and enjoy mixing your own solutions, there's a formula designed by an Australian photographer ("Athiril", at the Apug forum) that is based on D-19, but with less sulfite and more hydroquinone. It really has the edge on Dmax and general picture quality.
I use his formula, as the one I normally use for processing B&W slides is too caustic for this emulsion. Here it is:

Metol 2g
Sodium sulfite 30g
Hydroquinone 10g
Sodium Carbonate 50g (anhydrous)
Potassium Bromide 5g

Dilute 1:3 before use. Athiril uses it for 5' @27ºC, but I use 7' @24ºC.

Really, Fomapan R100 is my favourite B&W stock ever. Love its atmospherical qualities. When the batch is fine, it's pure magic.

Hope this helps!

Avortex , Thank you for the soup / will look into using fomapan flim . Yes it helps cheers

[nikonr10]

Avortex did you use the Foma B/W soup kit or your own home made mix or so what bleach did you use ?

Fomapan R100 is a very grateful film that reacts well with a lot of first developer combinations. It really proves that it's the only film on the market that was designed specifically for reversal.
The key is to avoid using any silver halide solvent on the first developer:

AGFA NEUTOL NE 1+4 / 12' @20ºC - This formula was published here by member "livio" several years ago. It works fine. Neutol is also for sale under different names (Agfa Print, Adox Adotol,...)
ILFORD UNIVERSAL PQ 1+5 / 12' @20ºC - Same results.
TETENAL DOKUMOL 1+9 / 8' @20ºC - Cool neutral and very contrasty.
TETENAL DOKUMOL 1+7 / 8' @20ºC - I haven't tested this option, but it's reported to work fine too. For me, 1+9 is OK.
KODAK D11 1+1 / 10' @24ºC - Excellent gray scale, sharper than Neutol, but lacks an adequate maximum density for my taste.
FOMADON LQR, the developer included at the Foma Kit, works great too. It behaves in a similar way than Neutol and it's dirt cheap if you buy it separately from the kit.

The problem with the kit is that it includes, due to legal reasons, a Permanganate bleach. This film reacts better to a Dichromate based one, and I recommend this option. Well, almost every film reacts better to a dichromate bleach: it gives superior picture quality and is always reliable.

If you're picky about your processing and enjoy mixing your own solutions, there's a formula designed by an Australian photographer ("Athiril", at the Apug forum) that is based on D-19, but with less sulfite and more hydroquinone. It really has the edge on Dmax and general picture quality.
I use his formula, as the one I normally use for processing B&W slides is too caustic for this emulsion. Here it is:

Metol 2g
Sodium sulfite 30g
Hydroquinone 10g
Sodium Carbonate 50g (anhydrous)
Potassium Bromide 5g

Dilute 1:3 before use. Athiril uses it for 5' @27ºC, but I use 7' @24ºC.

Really, Fomapan R100 is my favourite B&W stock ever. Love its atmospherical qualities. When the batch is fine, it's pure magic.

Hope this helps!

Avortex , Thank you for the soup / will look into using fomapan flim . Yes it helps cheers

Avortex would this soup also work with Agfa scala 200x film developng ?

[aj]

Let us cite the Internet. The world is flat, nobody went to the moon and JFK wasn't murdered by Lee Harvey Oswald.
Other fun findings from the Internet, supposedly Nikon wasn't capable of setting the exposure system on the F90s propeply and the autofocus on the F100 was off too. People at home could demonstrate such with a scrap of paper and a ruler

Oh, Yes! The internet! The place to troll other people's posts without giving any useful information, insulting them and wanting a lot of explanations about their opinion in exchange.

I didn't ask for any explanation. It is obvious that an experimental DIY processor cannot determine from two samples if there was fawlty stock.

Here you have somebody who thinks Fuji is not capable of producing proper quality photopaper.It is plain laughable:
http://www.apug.org/forum/index.php?thr ... st-1828124

I already recommended getting film from this APUG advertiser:

Works fast and affordable. http://www.fomafoto.com/index.php/shop/ ... /cine-film

[avortex]

Avortex would this soup also work with Agfa scala 200x film developng ?

No, that soup is too weak. Scala, and his new incarnation as Adox Pan-X (or Adox Silvermax in 35mm), is a much harder film to process.
You need a very powerful formula or use a silver halide solvent on the first developer. The second route is easier for working at home.
The original Scala process used the first developer from the E-6 chemicals at a higher temperature than normal for B&W, so you can experiment with that.

Revising my older notes, I see I was able to process it (at 100 ASA) with TETENAL DOKUMOL 1+9, adding 2'5g/l of Potassium Thyocianate (KSCN). 16' @20ºC. Perhaps with a 1+7 dilution you would get a higher ASA (haven't tested it).
That was a long time ago. Nowadays, I use a more complicated process that yields best results at 160 ASA, but the formula above should give you good results for home processing and a neutral black tone, difficult to get in Agfa Scala without a final toning.

Give it a try and let me know!

[nikonr10]

Avortex would this soup also work with Agfa scala 200x film developng ?

No, that soup is too weak. Scala, and his new incarnation as Adox Pan-X (or Adox Silvermax in 35mm), is a much harder film to process.
You need a very powerful formula or use a silver halide solvent on the first developer. The second route is easier for working at home.
The original Scala process used the first developer from the E-6 chemicals at a higher temperature than normal for B&W, so you can experiment with that.

Revising my older notes, I see I was able to process it (at 100 ASA) with TETENAL DOKUMOL 1+9, adding 2'5g/l of Potassium Thyocianate (KSCN). 16' @20ºC. Perhaps with a 1+7 dilution you would get a higher ASA (haven't tested it).
That was a long time ago. Nowadays, I use a more complicated process that yields best results at 160 ASA, but the formula above should give you good results for home processing and a neutral black tone, difficult to get in Agfa Scala without a final toning.

Give it a try and let me know!

Avortex , Thank you for your insight/ looking at new ways to keep cost of film price down , just shopping and researching what's doable for now ,

Cheers

[mr8mm]

I believe the DR5 web page has a list of FOMA emulsions to be avoided at the bottom of the page. They were tired of being blamed for poor results when the problem was with FOMA. Also at the top of page there is a statement that they are moving from Denver location. Not certain what it means. Out of business?