super 8 shooting nightmare

[greg_8mm]

For some reason a lot of people dislike pro8mm and what they're doing. But, from a business perspective they found a need and are able to supply a wide array of film and refurb cameras that are spectacular. I think that's great that we have places that are organized enough to standardize their quality! Not only that, but make a new standard as well! Max8!? I mean come on! Pretty groovy right?

The big problem with Pro8mm is the cost. $795 for a reconditioned Canon AZ 814? If that's the future of Super 8, there aren't going to be many new filmmakers willing to leap into the format.

As for Max8 - I applaud pro8mm for their promotion, but widening the film gate isn't anything new. Quite a few forum members have tried it, and it has some serious drawbacks. Do a forum search for 'Super Duper 8' and info about Rick & Mitch's Super 8 feature film Sleep Always. It's a great example of the cool things people were doing with widescreen Super 8 before it was being 'introduced' by Pro8mm. ;)

serious drawbacks? tell me, I haven't found any on this forum...

[adamgarner]

Well, some may consider 800 bucks a bit much for an 814, but a warranty and completely refurbished camera are both priceless if you're working on professional projects.

Filmmakers can chose where they get their gear. You can start with a $30 camera from a garage sale, or, you can graduate to a Pro8 beaulieu or cannon. I think it's important to recognize that there is a professional segment of the market as an option.

As I mentioned, Pro8 has standardized their quality and their solution, which is key. So, as it applies to this thread, that means the format isn't dying. In fact it illustrates that super 8 is a very usable and affordable format (both amateur and professionals have options) and that usability will keep it afloat in the film-making world.

I applaud them for offering a standard solution. Sure there are other solutions, but it's much more difficult to go build your own super-duper 8 camera with a home-spun video tap. I would say that pro8 has made the format approachable for a large percentage of the market.

[BK]

Well, some may consider 800 bucks a bit much for an 814, but a warranty and completely refurbished camera are both priceless if you're working on professional projects.

Agreed. 800 bucks is small potatoes if you know that the camera won't let you down, film tested, ready for your professional shoot. It's just money for the insurance and peace of mind.

Nothing worst than having equipment quit on you in the middle of an important shoot and it's so embarrassing and frustrating.

Bill

[Mitch Perkins]

widening the film gate isn't anything new. Quite a few forum members have tried it, and it has some serious drawbacks.

serious drawbacks? tell me, I haven't found any on this forum...

Vignetting on the right side at certain focal lengths. Harder to set up aerial image for transfer without aberration on the edges. Can be worked around.

As for "serious" -



~:?)

Mitch

[Jim Carlile]

When you think about it, the original price of the 814 was around $400 in 1972 or so money. Factoring in for inflation, that would be about, what, $1600 in today's money? (probably more in terms of necessities--one bedroom apartments in 1972 were going for about $100 a month in desirable metropolitan areas.)

So $800 is not that out of line, methinks.

Here's something interesting-- an inflation calculator:

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

According to this, that 814 would now cost almost $2000 today. A Nizo 6080 would be about $4000.

This has become a pretty cheap hobby.

[bakanosaru]

Vignetting on the right side at certain focal lengths. Harder to set up aerial image for transfer without aberration on the edges. Can be worked around.

And the zoom doesn't track straight (unless the lens is recentered).

[Can't see the full frame through the viewfinder, although some people have probably widened their vf's too.]

[flatwood]

The Canon 1014e is nice. I have one and am very satisfied with it for many years. Ive been bidding on some on eBay lately wanting to get a backup or two for all the above stated reasons.

[Jean Poirier]

I should call this topic: S8SN part two. I believe that the cameras used on the project were okay since all of them (including Canon 310XL and 514XLs) had problems with E64T jamming cartridges. I will try to get an exchange/refund with Kodak and shoot B/W until there is a new color formulation. I would not recommend E64T for a serious project. This was a sad turn of event. I would say less than a third of super 8 planned shots may turn okay. Jean

[reflex]

serious drawbacks? tell me, I haven't found any on this forum...

Missed this the first time around. There are a number of drawbacks when you widen the S8 gate:

1. Can't see entire image in viewfinder
2. Zoom is off-center
3. Top and bottom right of image vignette at certain focal lengths. This will vary depending on the camera
4. Developing facilities don't expect an image at the edge of the film, and you may see scratches and handling marks
5. Even with a widened gate, the Super 8 frame is not full 16:9. It will require additional cropping on the top and bottom, losing a bit of image detail.
6. Finding somewhere to transfer the widened image might end be difficult or result in increased costs. Most affordable transfer places with a Workprinter aren't set up to capture 16:9

I'd qualify not being able to see what I'm doing and scratches as "serious drawbacks" That said, I love Super Duper 8 and own several modified cameras. I'm even toying with the idea of modding a Fujica Single-8 camera. I'll call it "Single Duper 8"

[Mr Blackstock]

after reading the topic carefully, and how it veered into another area, I decided to throw my two cents in.
RELIABILITY: I have used Sankyo's, canon's, Yashica, Hanimex, Elmo, and Minolta with no problems. perhaps it is due to the opinion that super8 cameras in australia have been used less than those in Europe or north america? Often i have picked up cameras for less than $20AUD and they purr along. maybe i have been lucky. But i will say, of all the cameras i have picked up cheap, Sankyo is one camera that never needs rudimentary repair, whereas canons always need something! maybe they have been used more. And concerning the robust nature of some cameras over others? I do not know what you northerm hemisphere people do with your cameras....but i think we are gentler on ours down here....

WIDENED GATE: I can understand the desire to experiment, i have thought of it myself, but adjusting the frame area also effects the shooting area, changing the way space is perceived, and how the actors relate to each other within it...I have a cunning secret, get them to sit closer...saves alot of widening money...

I am a little drunk....