Hi,
I have a very simple question (as I hope):
Why does it take an extra lens on top of a prime lens to shoot in anamorphic format. Why can Inot use a distortion lens like we use glasses on our eyes (prime lenses)? Or even simpler: What does it really take to shoot anamorphic format. It's quite a while I am looking to get into it, but I never find a point where to start from. What is 16C? Has it anything to do whith the mount of the lens (c-mount). too many questions, sorry.
What's all this mess about an why doesn't anybody have simple clear answers? May YOU know..!
Ciao to all you,
BelM
What is so difficult about anamorphic
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
It doesn't take an extra lens on top of a prime....there are lots of prime anamorphics...it's just that in Super 8, there isn't one that I know of.
First, let me state clearly that I think anamorphic ratio is more cinematic and I do not buy into the Japanese studes that set HDTV at 1.85 (as I recall the answer was actually greater than 1.85, but I forget exactly)....anyways..
But in 16 and Super 8, I just don't think it makes a lot of sense. Unlike the advantage in 35mm, you're not picking up any more film area. Super 16 is a much better option for getting more than 4:3 out of a small format camera, and you get to shoot with a spherical lens. Of course all things being equal, I'll take a scope movie in 35 over a 1.85, but I think the best theater presentation format is 65mm spherical in 2.25 and I wish that's what today's movies were using when they shot widescreen rather than scope. But that's the best format you can get in wide distribution. Ohhh...how I like to dream....
First, let me state clearly that I think anamorphic ratio is more cinematic and I do not buy into the Japanese studes that set HDTV at 1.85 (as I recall the answer was actually greater than 1.85, but I forget exactly)....anyways..
But in 16 and Super 8, I just don't think it makes a lot of sense. Unlike the advantage in 35mm, you're not picking up any more film area. Super 16 is a much better option for getting more than 4:3 out of a small format camera, and you get to shoot with a spherical lens. Of course all things being equal, I'll take a scope movie in 35 over a 1.85, but I think the best theater presentation format is 65mm spherical in 2.25 and I wish that's what today's movies were using when they shot widescreen rather than scope. But that's the best format you can get in wide distribution. Ohhh...how I like to dream....
To kentbulza
Hey there!
Let me ask you one more thing: a prime anamorphic is yet another lens. Is there no way to use a "Filter" - a distortion glass - to get the effect? And WHY?
Thank you very much.
BelM
Let me ask you one more thing: a prime anamorphic is yet another lens. Is there no way to use a "Filter" - a distortion glass - to get the effect? And WHY?
Thank you very much.
BelM
Distortion glass
Hi Svenska!
Hoping svedish might be close enough to german to understand the difference:
A distortion glass is "eine linse" like a looking glass.
A lens is "ein objektiv" (a couple of "linsen" in a metal mount).
I don't know the difference in english...
Regards,
BelM
Hoping svedish might be close enough to german to understand the difference:
A distortion glass is "eine linse" like a looking glass.
A lens is "ein objektiv" (a couple of "linsen" in a metal mount).
I don't know the difference in english...
Regards,
BelM
Why is it important
It's a matter of expenses, isn't it!
A single glass lens cannot cost the same as a complex lens-system.
I have no lens, and I want to buy one, BUT...
nobody knows what lens i should use for my (16mm Bolex, 10mm Schneider and 16 -107 Angenieux lenses) How can I buy a lens for some 200 USD, have it shipped for another 100 bucks and then see that it doesn't work. I need to know what to buy, right?. That's why I want to know. And it can't really be that difficult, can it?
Kind Regs and thanx for the attention,
BelM
A single glass lens cannot cost the same as a complex lens-system.
I have no lens, and I want to buy one, BUT...
nobody knows what lens i should use for my (16mm Bolex, 10mm Schneider and 16 -107 Angenieux lenses) How can I buy a lens for some 200 USD, have it shipped for another 100 bucks and then see that it doesn't work. I need to know what to buy, right?. That's why I want to know. And it can't really be that difficult, can it?
Kind Regs and thanx for the attention,
BelM
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mattias
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Re: Why is it important
i've no idea. again if you have a cheap source for high quality anamorphic single element lenses just get one and try.belmondo wrote:It's a matter of expenses, isn't it!
/matt
Isco released two 1.5x-anamorphotic-prime-lenses in the late 1970s/early 1980s: a fixed and a zoom-lens. Both have been available as C-Mount and a as "Beaulieu-Mount" (C-mount + attached motors for the zoom and the iris).
There are some other Isco-prime-lenses with integrated 1.5x or 2x-anamorphot for slide-photography (M42, some Nikon-mount, ...) that might be used with an adapter on C-Mount-Single8/Super8-cameras, too.
And those guys that sell those Lomo- and other Ex-USSR-2x-anamorphotic-prime-lenses for 35mm-cameras claim that they do have adapters to attach those lenses to any C-Mount-camera, too.
...
Nevertheless getting a used 2x Kowa attachment is much cheaper than getting any used primes.
There are some other Isco-prime-lenses with integrated 1.5x or 2x-anamorphot for slide-photography (M42, some Nikon-mount, ...) that might be used with an adapter on C-Mount-Single8/Super8-cameras, too.
And those guys that sell those Lomo- and other Ex-USSR-2x-anamorphotic-prime-lenses for 35mm-cameras claim that they do have adapters to attach those lenses to any C-Mount-camera, too.
...
Nevertheless getting a used 2x Kowa attachment is much cheaper than getting any used primes.
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Scotness
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You can't just put an anmorphic lense straight on to a camera unless the anamorphic lense has a diaghram built into it for exposure control.
If you search around you can find some lense specs for various anamorphic lenses - eg:
http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavende ... rphic.html
- the key thing will be the rear lense diameter and how that compares to the front diameter of your prime or zoom.
Perhaps you could take your camera into a camera hire place and try out their lenses so you can see whcih will work and which won't - before you buy one.
Scot
If you search around you can find some lense specs for various anamorphic lenses - eg:
http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavende ... rphic.html
- the key thing will be the rear lense diameter and how that compares to the front diameter of your prime or zoom.
Perhaps you could take your camera into a camera hire place and try out their lenses so you can see whcih will work and which won't - before you buy one.
Scot
Read my science fiction novel The Forest of Life at https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01D38AV4K
Why is it so hard to shoot anamorphic ?
Well, in the context of super8 there are very few cameras with exchangable lenses so anamorphic primes are sort of out of the question... and even if you had an anamorphic prime and a beaulieu, or leicina, it would probably not work anyway because of a number of things.. like the smaller gauge...
The way to go is with an anamorphic lens infront of your zoom lens on the super8, and why THAT is hard to get to work is because:
if the zoom lens is to long and has a too big diameter in comparison with the anamorphic of your choice, the resulting image of the two will vignette (look like your looking thru a keyhole) in the wideangle part of the focal... and if the mismatch is severe, the vignetting wont stop until you zoom to normal or even the telepart of the focal...
16C is the name of one of the Kowa lenses. It is not the best suited for your purpose so forget about it. It is made for anamorphic PROJECTION if i remember correctly.
The one called 16H or 8Z is the one in that particular brand that is most suited for this because it is short and does only expand minimally on focusing. I have tried it in front of a 6-80 and 6-90 and i would recommend a zoom with smaller diameter, like the 8-64.
The 16H / 8Z is a 2X ana which means the resulting format will be 2.66.
If you intend to go to 16/9 the best lens is the Iscorama 54. Which screws onto filter threads of 6-80/6-90/6-66/6-70.
The Iscorama 36, 42 and 54 are 1.5X ana's
There are also 1.75X ana's which will give you 2.25 format ... aaaalmost 2.35... (but could always use a 2X ana and crop a little from 2.66)
Another problem with anamorphic lenses are alignment. Because if you turn the front of the zoomlens when you focus it, you need some kind of solution for keeping the anamorphic lens horizontal yet lighttightly fixed to the zoomlens. Most ppl seem to use a set of rotatable rings, a bottomplate and a rod in between to sort this.. a nicer solution could be a rods and matte box setup and the anamorphic attached to the rods..
search for cavision and you´ll get the idea.
...this is all common knowledge.
...for more in depth technical knowledge, be sure to visit this link for an extensive walkthru of lens choices by the icon and titan of the super 8... Martin Baumgarten. (that scene in star wars on the forrest moon when all the small bears meet C3PO comes to mind...)
http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavende ... rphic.html
Well, in the context of super8 there are very few cameras with exchangable lenses so anamorphic primes are sort of out of the question... and even if you had an anamorphic prime and a beaulieu, or leicina, it would probably not work anyway because of a number of things.. like the smaller gauge...
The way to go is with an anamorphic lens infront of your zoom lens on the super8, and why THAT is hard to get to work is because:
if the zoom lens is to long and has a too big diameter in comparison with the anamorphic of your choice, the resulting image of the two will vignette (look like your looking thru a keyhole) in the wideangle part of the focal... and if the mismatch is severe, the vignetting wont stop until you zoom to normal or even the telepart of the focal...
16C is the name of one of the Kowa lenses. It is not the best suited for your purpose so forget about it. It is made for anamorphic PROJECTION if i remember correctly.
The one called 16H or 8Z is the one in that particular brand that is most suited for this because it is short and does only expand minimally on focusing. I have tried it in front of a 6-80 and 6-90 and i would recommend a zoom with smaller diameter, like the 8-64.
The 16H / 8Z is a 2X ana which means the resulting format will be 2.66.
If you intend to go to 16/9 the best lens is the Iscorama 54. Which screws onto filter threads of 6-80/6-90/6-66/6-70.
The Iscorama 36, 42 and 54 are 1.5X ana's
There are also 1.75X ana's which will give you 2.25 format ... aaaalmost 2.35... (but could always use a 2X ana and crop a little from 2.66)
Another problem with anamorphic lenses are alignment. Because if you turn the front of the zoomlens when you focus it, you need some kind of solution for keeping the anamorphic lens horizontal yet lighttightly fixed to the zoomlens. Most ppl seem to use a set of rotatable rings, a bottomplate and a rod in between to sort this.. a nicer solution could be a rods and matte box setup and the anamorphic attached to the rods..
search for cavision and you´ll get the idea.
...this is all common knowledge.
...for more in depth technical knowledge, be sure to visit this link for an extensive walkthru of lens choices by the icon and titan of the super 8... Martin Baumgarten. (that scene in star wars on the forrest moon when all the small bears meet C3PO comes to mind...)
http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavende ... rphic.html
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steve hyde
- Senior member
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- Real name: Steve Hyde
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...I can't be of much help here having never shot anamorphic, however you might find this old thread interesting. I haven't checked to see if the samples are still on line, but these are the best anamorphic super 8 clips I have ever seen. They were shot with a Schneider anamorphic adaptor.
viewtopic.php?t=7612&sid=b52a51f57ebbcf ... b699d535d0
Hope this is useful for your research,
Steve
viewtopic.php?t=7612&sid=b52a51f57ebbcf ... b699d535d0
Hope this is useful for your research,
Steve
Although S8 'scope requires a certain amount of work to get A lens and camera to work together, the projected results can be well worth the trouble! An efficient 100 W lamp projector will fill a screen 8' x 3'. Increase the lamp to 150 W, and a 12' x 4'6" screen can be used.
Scope is especially effective for open countryside and railways.
Scope is especially effective for open countryside and railways.