Digital Projection Cinema

Post by **tod8** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 5:07 am

As I sat in the back row watching the third and final installment of the Rings trilogy, I could hear the old fashioned sound of the clicketing film projector behind me, and if I turned to look at the light beaming out of the 'box', I could see the actual 35MM film as it made its way into the projector gate.

As I returned home I came across an online story of how about 400 theatres will convert to digital projection by the end of next year.

An interesting bit in the story was that when this happens, little seen films will become more able to be seen in digitally projected cinemas since all the cinema will have to do is download it from the satellite (or something to that effect), and not have to worry about the costs of having film reels shipped to their locations. If the films bomb, not much lost cash on their part, so they can become more adventurous in the films they show.

Along this note, I was wondering if it is also going to be possible to play DVD's from the digital projection booths, and if so, could I sneak into the room, konk the projectionist (or robot) on the head, and slip my own DVD film into the machine for the audience to see? Heck, I could even put a title on it with the name of the same film that the audience is expecting to see, so they might actually think it's the correct film, for a while at least. Would give me a good chance to see how an audience would react to my film.
I think this is something we all should try.
Go straight to the top!
Tod

Post by **T-Scan** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 8:27 am

a friend of mine runs a theater and is looking forward to digital projection.. as for now he has to deal with huge spools at least 6 feet in diameter.. if you've ever been in a projection booth, the film has to lay horizontal on a huge round steel rotating table. and the guy who delivers the films will have it a lot easier or be looking for another job.

Post by **tim** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 8:59 am

When cinema pictures go down to dvd standards, I shall stay home and watch the same thing on TV (through binoculars if necessary.).

BTW this is a FILM forum!

Post by **sunrise** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 1:58 pm

I've seen DVD's projected on a cinematic screen and it was horrible, even though it went through line doubling etc.

DVD is a medium for viewing on a television screen, not projection.

sunrise

Post by **mshan** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 4:06 pm

T-Scan wrote:a friend of mine runs a theater and is looking forward to digital projection.. as for now he has to deal with huge spools at least 6 feet in diameter.. if you've ever been in a projection booth, the film has to lay horizontal on a huge round steel rotating table. and the guy who delivers the films will have it a lot easier or be looking for another job.

I'd say that BOTH the Projectionist and the deliverer will be out a job if digital projection takes root. It's a fact, Take a proven technology like Film and put it in the Dumpster in favor of a lesser unproved technology.

Post by **David M. Leugers** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:38 pm

My wife and I just drove 30 miles to get to our favorite art cinema to see "21 Grams". I needed a film fix in the worst way after watching so many DVDs received over Christmas. The film images were often times harsh, with poster-sized grain and garish colors. But they were always beautiful in a gritty realistic sort of way. This movie is a good example of how film stocks can be used to good effect. From smooth select-focus closeups to grainy razor sharp images they all combined to express the emotions of the film. The lushness of the images and the artistry in their crafting was satisfying to say the least. It is what I pay good money for. The experience of film is not defined by the ease with which it is accomplished. Do I really care that the film on 35mm reels cost money to produce and a person has to be paid to thread and run a projector to show it to me? Does anyone think that ticket prices will be dramatically reduced when all films will be shown digitally? The advertising for a major film costs far more than the cost of prints. Does anyone think that people are going to hire a baby sitter, drive x number of miles to a theatre, plunk down $10 a ticket to see a video made by an unknown, starring unknowns, without having an idea of the story etc through advertisements, just to have the same experience they could have at home on their home theatre screen??? So few movies are truely good and worthwile, it is mind numbing to think that MORE bad movies shot on video is what we need for theatres... If and when film dies, so does my patronage of theatres. I will not settle for less than what I have enjoyed my entire life. Why should anyone?

David M. Leugers

Post by **avortex** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:47 pm

I've seen DVD's projected on a cinematic screen and it was horrible, even though it went through line doubling etc.

DVD is a medium for viewing on a television screen, not projection.

I've seen DVD screenings with good 16:9 CRT projectors and they looked awesome. Yes, it's not 70mm quality, but very pleasant to see. A movie well encoded to DVD (progressive, 24p,...) should be screened with outstanding results-near theatrical quality.

Post by **FilmIs4Ever** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:06 pm

DIGITAL PROJECTION FUCKING SUCKS! (DOUBLE POST)

:

Post by **FilmIs4Ever** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:07 pm

DIGITAL PROJECTION FUCKING SUCKS! I WOULD NEVER WASTE MY MONEY ON SEEING A MOVIE RUN ON THAT SHIT. DO YOU REALIZE WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO PROJECTIONISTS AND MOTION PICTURE FILM IN GENERAL IF THAT GARBAGE TAKES HOLD???? :EMOTICON_FOR_ATOM_BOMB_GOING_OFF:
ONE MORE THING, TO EVERYONE THAT READS THIS: IF YOUR FAVORITE CINEMA GOES DIGITAL, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!!!!!!!

Post by **sunrise** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:25 pm

avortex wrote:I've seen DVD screenings with good 16:9 CRT projectors and they looked awesome. Yes, it's not 70mm quality, but very pleasant to see. A movie well encoded to DVD (progressive, 24p,...) should be screened with outstanding results-near theatrical quality.

If the screen is, let's say 7.20 meters wide (Which was about the size I think I saw an example of, although it was a few years back) it will give you a pixel size of 1 centimeter. Line doubling and interpolation will only blur and degrade the image making it incomprihensible and, well ugly.

No thanks, I prefer film.

(BTW I wasn't trying to turn this in to a technical discussion about resolution and stuff. I was merely pointing to the fact that it's quite obvious why it will look like crap.)

Post by **Elmogs** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:51 pm

I went to see a premier of the film, "Along Came Polly" with Ben Stiller/Jennifer Anisten. As soon as the film started I noticed it looked a little strange. Softly focused and a not as contrasty as I expected. Then when there were night scenes I realized that the blacks were not truly black but a very dark grey and then it hit me! I was watching a Video being projected! Even though I didn't pay to get in, i felt cheated!
I hope that this is not the future of films.
I did see Phantom Menace digitally projected and that looked great.

Post by **avortex** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:14 am

I was no pointing that a DVD screening looks better than a film projection. But I insist, it's a very pleasant way of seeing movies if done with the correct equipment. LCD projectors sucks, but not CRT.

I didn't want to say that DVD should substitute 35mm cinema projection. But if you want to collect films and project them at home the more practical and economic way of doing it is on DVD and CRT projector. Oh, yes, I forgot Derann super8 prints... well... I can't spend such big quantities of money in buying one movie. And if you like stuff like "die Hard" it's fine, but I can't see my favourite movies on their catalog. Besides, I can buy the complete work of Jan Svankmajer on DVD and project it with very decent results. Sure, not 70mm, but very film-like feeling and sharpness.

Post by **teadub** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 7:02 am

There are many reasons why I embrace digital cinema. I've mentioned before, last year I was invited to see an advance screening of the Criterion Collections release of D.A. Pennebaker's Monterey Pop DVD. The DVD was projected at the Laemmle Theater at 8000 Sunset Blvd in West Hollywood.

This is a movie that you have had to purchase as an "institution" or worse a pirate copy (that all looked like total shit) until now. There has never been a re-commisioned film print of this movie since the late sixties. Neither Pennebaker, nor the Criterion Collection have ever seen it look "this good". Lets say for the sake of arguement that there is an existing print that is in good condition (better looking than the dvd), this dvd includes hundreds of minutes of unreleased footage.

Had I not seen this movie via digital projection, I would not have been able to see it on the big screen at all. Mind you I was the conservator of a film society that held weekly film showings for free. And mind you again I own numerous unreleased film prints (for example, I have a 16mm print of Sam Fuller's first film I Shot Jesse James and I've shown it in one of my film screenings).

I mean, I know mpeg2 looks like crap. And I have not turned my back on film. But the future is something to look forward too. No damaged sprockets. Cheap transportation. No unwinding "the brain". More accessability for hard to find features (maybe).

On a side note, my girlfriend got a copy of Pirate of the Carribean dvd and it looked impressive on the big 'ol sixty some-odd inch 16x9 Mistubishi TV I was watching it on.

Post by **Patrick** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 7:06 am

I just recently saw the French comedy Spanish Apartment at a small cinema that usually plays little known films and foreign films. I saw The Gods Must Be Crazy at this same cinema years ago. Spanish Apatrment was a well made funny film with good cinematography. It was only about 10 or so minutes into the film that something looked a bit odd. In bright outdoor scenes that showed a lot of sky, there seemed to be lots of faint little things floating in the sky. I then realised what they were. They looked liked the pixels that you see on a TV screen. They also became evident whenever light colours dominated the frame. Once I noticed them, I couldnt forget them. At times, it felt like I was watching a TV screen rather than a cinema screen. Yet at the same time, there was nothing wrong with the resolution, it looked fine. And the colours were rich and saturated. Obviously, it was shot on HD and then a 35mm film print was made from the digital footage. The closing credits confirmed this. Even though it was projected on film, I felt a little cheated like Elmogos.

Post by **sunrise** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 1:03 pm

So to avoid any misunderstandings, we where discussing digital projection in the cinema and Tod was talking about slipping into the projection booth with his own DVD.

I, along with others, said clearly that DVD was not for cinematic use. It's a home theater format which should not be projected onto big screens, because it would give away resolution etc.

I have no doubst that digital cinema will be great, when they overcome the technical problems and make a decent product. That would mean real time 2K projection at least. This is not economically or technically viable at the moment.

I am also optimistic about the future, although I do remember my dissapointment a few years ago, when the DVD was introduced. It was celebrated as a new "near to cinema" experience, but I was frustrated that the quality was worse than brodcast standards. I think they should have waited a few years and introduced the DVD as a HDTV format. That way they could sell both the DVD players and new television sets (which failed when introducing the 16:9 television).

Anyway, that's just me babbling. Most importantly, it's essential for cinemas to introduce something extra and better quality than people can get at home. Otherwise people will most likely stay at home. This is simplified of course, and only half true, but should be how cinema should work.

sunrise