Smallformat - Be very careful what you are buying

[alpha.tango]

Just a warning before subscribing. You may be safer buying single issues.

In early 2007 I purchased a one year subscription to Smallformat. This was defined on the publishers site as 6 copies. I paid for this year in advance using Paypal. The magazine arrived after a few months and eventually after a further 6 months, and greatly appreciated help from Juergen , my free gift arrived.

At no time did I request any further period beyond the one year.

After the year I was sent an invoice by the publishers which I did not pay as I did not wish to receive further copies. This was posted back marked " not ordered".

I have now received a demand for payment, penalty charge and threat of legal action for a continuing subscription I did not order.

I am now attempting to resolve this by e-mail and fax but this is a considerable nuisance.

I would just comment that my decision not to purchase a further period related to personal commitments, not any reflection on Smallformat, which remains superb,

[MIKI-814]

Where did I read a similar case?...

[Will2]

You bad customer you. Don't you know that in Germany signing up for a one year subscription means they own you for life? (unless you formally write them and tell them to discontinue.)

Now you're in trouble, Smallformat's crack team of lawyers are headed to your town. They'll rent office space there and settle in for the big law suit. Two and a half years later they will probably win their suit and you will own them like $100. That will will teach you!

This has been addressed, you'll probably want to do a search on this topic here. What I would do is send them a nice email saying thank you, but you'd prefer not to continue your subscription. If they have sent you any additional magazines I'd offer to pay for the individual ones (that's fair right?).

Juergen puts out an AMAZING publication both in content and style. It's just how the publisher does business that's a little different than what we're used to in the U.S. and perhaps in England. Chalk it up to a cultural misunderstanding and return their stark tone with kindness.

[brokenflashlight]

I was going to actually subscribe to Smallformat, but after reading this SECOND case of subscription harassment from them I, most defintely, am not.

Don't you know that in Germany when you think you're only paying for one year subscription you're actually signing up for LIFE? Geez. Get with it, why don't ya'?

Apparently it's your own fault, for not being able to read the minds of Smallformat people.

Ha.

[pippin]

The reverse happened to me. I subscribed for one year and wanted to continue, but never received information about how I should continue to subscribe.

[aj]

It is a bit an iteration of steps.

Apparently people don't read legal contracts to which they bind themselves and neither do they care to read related threads on the same topic on this forum of which they are member .

Just write a letter on paper. As you agreed to do when you started with the contract.

Also very strange is this superior attitude with made-up arguments toward ways-of-doing in other countries which are standard there and in many other countries.
Likely the same people who speak loadly in english to locals when travelling through countries where english is not the national language
See how you like it when people start yelling spanish at you when travelling though California. And they are not from Barcelona.

BTW what 2nd posting what should that imply. How many subscribers does one think there are. This forum has some 25 posters and some 100 readers. Likely overestimated. Small-format has thousands. The german schmalfilm has a factor more.

[brokenflashlight]

Also very strange is this superior attitude with made-up arguments toward ways-of-doing in other countries which are standard there and in many other countries.
Likely the same people who speak loadly in english to locals when travelling through countries where english is not the national language

I was referring to the response by the board member who works for Smallformat (I can't remember his username) in the first thread regarding this problem. I'm pretty sure he put forth the argument that it should be assumed you have to pro-actively cancel your subscription after one year even if it explicity says you're only obligated to pay for the six issues or "one year", and suggested that that is commonplace practice.

That's all. No nationalistic/linguistic superiority here ... I'm Canadian for crissesessake. Is that even possible?

[reflex]

alpha.tango - send a private message to filmshooting.com member juergen. He's the editor of the magazine and should be able to resolve the problem. He mentioned to me a few weeks ago that he was going to bring this problem up with the publisher - it caused him a lot of concern, too.

The difficulty is that the publishing company isn't used to dealing with international customers, and things sometimes gets mangled in translation.

brokenflashlight - Please reconsider subscribing. The "smallformat people" (including me) are extremely dedicated to small gauge film, and we're working hard to create world-class content. Hopefully, we don't have any future problems with subscription renewals. I suspect alpha.tango's invoice was part of the same batch that caused the uproar on filmshooting last time.

[lunni]

The reverse happened to me. I subscribed for one year and wanted to continue, but never received information about how I should continue to subscribe.

Yes, the same happened to me... I thought the subcription was going to go on till I cancel it, but it suddendly stopped... Did not hear back. No renewal, no invoice, no word - no nothing.

And hey publisher, if you're listening, I'm still willing to subscribe and willing to pay for the the issues I have not seen yet. Thanks!

[camera8mm]

kinda like those 10 cds for a penny and they just keeping comming and getting more expensive...

[MIKI-814]

It's just how the publisher does business that's a little different than what we're used to in the U.S. and perhaps in England. Chalk it up to a cultural misunderstanding and return their stark tone with kindness.

It's not US or England alone, I'm European too and shocked as well for this way to do things: One year subscription, should mean "one year subscrption", easy, isn't it?. Any other way to understand such a simple and clear statement sounds ridiculous to me.

Having said that, I agree with aj: It's our vault, we should know where we are buying when signing a contract or under which laws...

[mondo77]

Just for the record (again!) I never did get my Paypal invoice for a .pdf sub despite 2 reminders. I've given up.

[etimh]

I was part of that other round of discussions on this topic. After all the confusion, I recieved the next issue in the mail together with yet another copy of the invoice. I finally gave up trying to figure it out and just re-subscribed.

I still have no idea where I am in my subscription and absolutely no help from the publishers in figuring it out or explaining it to me. Oh well, its still a great publication and as long as I don't miss an issue, I guess I'll be happy. :?

Tim

[jpolzfuss]

This was defined on the publishers site as 6 copies.

Yes, but your first issue should have come with a small letter that you'll automatically keep subscribed until you cancel the contract three months before the year is over. So you could/should have known this months ago!

[MovieStuff]

Just write a letter on paper. As you agreed to do when you started with the contract.

To my knowledge, there is nothing in the subscription page that says the subscription will be continuous until a written request is made to stop it. Supposedly you get a piece of paper with the first issue stating that but, realistically, that's neither binding (since it is after the transaction is complete) nor practical since sometimes entire issues do not arrive and, apparently, some arrive incomplete. I love the magazine or I would not throw down a big chunk of change every few months in advertising. But there is really no reason for this problem to continue. All that needs to be done is to change the information on the subscription page. It's just that easy.

Roger