Is Film "Analog"?

[Davideo]

I got into a debate with an engineer a few weeks ago on whether or not motion picture film is "analog". I say it's not as it's a photochemical medium and that "analog" is mostly applied in our industry to video and is an electronic medium. Furthermore, the engineer says that images are "analog" coming into a video camera's lens and then converted to a digital medium. That's fine for video...but not for film as the light is exposed to the film surface in the film camera photochemically. This is arguing semantics but I say that using the word "analog" for film is like calling a Rolls Royce a child's bicycle. Apples vs oranges, etc. Thoughts?

[Will2]

Strictly speaking film is an analog of the original light.

Measuring or representing data by means of one or more physical properties that can express any value along a continuous scale. For example, the position of the hands of a clock is an analog representation of time.

Perhaps the question would be how "continuous" film really is but for most uses we tend to think of it as continuous tone image.

But in a sense motion pictures capture a limited number of frames which can be considered "samples." So I guess it just depends on how you look at it.

[DonFito]

I'd side with Davideo on this. It sure is a photochemical process. However, it sure is using a variable physical scale (silver halide clusters) to capture another variable: light. But since it was invented way before analog video we can safely just call it Film

[aj]

It is common practice and the discussion is a bit moot.

Large population cannot be controlled in the use of words and the implied meaning of these. New words come into use and it just happens under influence of publications and marketing and easy use.

Film or photography on film is not analog in the meaning of the word as it is used in electronics to designated the non-digital technology.

It were better to call it silver-based photography or chemical photography.

Actually, considering the word -graphy implies that digital images cannot be called photographs as nothing is being graphed

It would hard to call a Nikon F5, F100, F6 and such non digital as they are crammed with digital-technology for exposure control and contain databases with attributes of 50,000 images to compare the current image with.

[BolexPlusX]

To me "Analog" and "Digital" are words that describe two methods of electronic signal handling, so a piece of film is "Analog" just as much as an oil painting or printed text on a paper. All three carry information, but are not electronic.

I guess you could say film only "became" "analog" when Digital showed up.

What bothers me even more is that every piece of information we use seems to be becoming a "file"...but that's another story.

[MovieStuff]

Hmmmmm......

Well, I'd say that it is both. One the one hand, motion picture film is kinda-digital because it breaks up any motion into segments, so there is information missing between frames. That "sampling" rate can be modified but even at something like 10,000fps, you are still leaving something out. But, within each frame, film is more analog because it provides a more continuous grey scale that is different than how video creates the same image.

My two cents....

Roger

[super8man]

This is analog:



http://www.analogsf.com/0811/issue_11.shtml

In my guitar amp, I have 5 tubes...definitely analog (tube warmth). Other folks have state of the art digital amps. Pure delight from those amps too...but very different animals.

And let's not even get in to the use of the word "film" as a verb to describe something that plays a tape.

[marc]

Hmmmmm......

Well, I'd say that it is both. One the one hand, motion picture film is kinda-digital because it breaks up any motion into segments, so there is information missing between frames. That "sampling" rate can be modified but even at something like 10,000fps, you are still leaving something out. But, within each frame, film is more analog because it provides a more continuous grey scale that is different than how video creates the same image.

My two cents....

Roger

Ouch!!!! MY brain hurts!!!! :?

[Janne]

It depends on the scale you looking at things. The silver halide crystals are either "on" or "off". They do not have a grey scale. 50 % grey is formed by covering 50 % of the emulsion with opaque crystals. The other 50 % is just transparent film.

[reflex]

You could argue that every object on earth can be quantified at the molecular level, but "digital" usually refers to data in the form of binary digits which is processed electronically.

Film certainly doesn't fall into that category any more than old-fashioned analog videotape does. ;)

[Ace]

Good job reflex...you beat me to it, "digital" is usually a reference to binary code representing 1's and 0's processed electronically.

Wikipedia take:
"A digital system uses discrete (discontinuous) values to represent information for input, processing, transmission, storage, etc. By contrast, non-digital (or analog) systems use a continuous range of values to represent information. Although digital representations are discrete, the information represented can be either discrete, such as numbers, letters or icons, or continuous, such as sounds, images, and other measurements of continuous systems.

The word digital comes from the same source as the word digit and digitus (the Latin word for finger), as fingers are used for discrete counting.

The word digital is most commonly used in computing and electronics, especially where real-world information is converted to binary numeric form as in digital audio and digital photography. Such data-carrying signals carry electronic or optical pulses, the amplitude of each of which represents a logical 1 (pulse present and/or high) or a logical 0 (pulse absent and/or low)."

On a similar note:
Richard Wright died today, a founding member of the band Pink Floyd, which was one of the pioneering bands to experiment with synthesizers (EMS VCS3 Synthi A, one of the first) to a create prominent digital sound to their music, the most notable being the 'Dark Side of the Moon'.

[Janne]

Voltage is high or low, therefore is digital. Film grains are black or white, but are definitely not digital but analog. Based on what? Who defines what things are allowed to see as digital? I agree that the use of the term digital should be limited to the world of electronics. Everything else is confusing. But then the term analog falls into that same category, and its use should be limited to electronics as well. The conclusion is that there are three different main types of image processing: digital, analog, and opto-chemical. I think, the division into the three categories is the best way to describe those different technologies and to make comparisons. If you want to throw movie film and analog video into the same category, how do you compare them to digital imaging? What are the productive results of such a comparison? It doesn't look more than rhetoric to me.

[super8man]

Got TV?

On February 17, 2009, federal law requires that all full-power television broadcast stations stop broadcasting in analog format and broadcast only in digital format. Here’s what these requirements will mean for you and your television viewing.

Why Are Broadcast TV Stations Switching to All-Digital?

Congress mandated the conversion to all-digital television broadcasting, also known as the digital television (DTV) transition, because all-digital broadcasting will free up frequencies for public safety communications (such as police, fire, and emergency rescue). Also, digital is a more efficient transmission technology that allows broadcast stations to offer improved picture and sound quality, as well as offer more programming options for consumers through multiple broadcast streams (multicasting). In addition, some of the freed up frequencies will be used for advanced commercial wireless services for consumers.

What Do I Need To Do To Be Ready For The DTV Transition?

What you need to do depends on the source of your television programming, whether you receive programming over-the-air or from a paid provider such as a cable or satellite TV company.

How Do I Receive Digital Broadcasts If I Don’t Subscribe To Cable Or Satellite?

If you receive only free over-the-air television programming, the type of TV you own, either a digital TV or an analog TV, is very important. Consumers who receive only free over-the-air television may view digital programming through a TV set with a built-in digital tuner (integrated DTV) or a digital-ready monitor with a separate digital tuner set-top box. (Both of these digital television types are referred to as a DTV). The only additional equipment required to view over-the-air digital programming with a DTV is a regular antenna, either on your roof or a smaller version on your TV such as “rabbit ears.”

If you have an analog television, you will have to purchase a digital-to-analog set-top converter box to attach to your TV set to be able to view over-the-air digital programming (see “What About My Analog TV?” below).

Dang...anyone want to buy a Sony Trinitron ANALOG TV?

[reflex]

Dang...anyone want to buy a Sony Trinitron ANALOG TV?

Several months ago I spotted a nice Sony TV sitting on a neighbour's front step. I joked that he better not set it up on the veranda, and he said that he'd replaced it with a "nice flat tv." He was willing to give it away for free.

That's the epitome of wasteful excess - it's a great set for those of us with sat or cable receivers with analog outputs.

[Bolex Collector]

It is common practice and the discussion is a bit moot.

Large population cannot be controlled in the use of words and the implied meaning of these. New words come into use and it just happens under influence of publications and marketing and easy use.

I agree. It's unfortunate that the word "analog" has come to mean "anything not digital", but it seems its use has become too common. As much as I'd like to correct anyone who refers to celluloid film as "analog film" or 35mm slrs as "analog cameras", it's kind of pointless.

I think the term has especially caught on among the younger generation who have grown up in a predominately digital era. It seems to be born of ignorance of the true definition (no offense intended to the younger generation).

I've always understood "analog" as referring to a recording method, specifically onto tape, via fluctuations in the electronic signal. Digital is simply "ones and zeros", as reflex said. "Analog film" or "analog still camera" sounds odd to me.

When I used to work as a TV news photographer (shooting on analog Betacam SP), invariably I'd get asked "What are you filming?". :lol: Of course, I wasn't "filming" anything... I was shooting to tape. But there's no sense in correcting someone.. the word "filming" has just become too synonymous with "shooting videotape".

Still... "analog film" just sounds completely nonsensical. But what can you do? :?