vision with canon 814xl-s

[ossioskari]

(i tried searching for the topic, but...) is there really an easy way to shoot 200T and 500T with canon 814xl-s? i mean, how much can i expect the latitude to forgive wrong exposure?

i'll be shooting a wedding ceremony outdoors next weekend and was looking for an easy way to compensate the amount i get from autoexposure. something like 'overexpose two stops from auto reading and it should be fine'. you guys think i could work it out like that?

[wado1942]

The best way to deal with 500T is not to use it. 200T is really too fast for super-8, 500T is pretty much grain with a little bit of a soft image behind it. Others might disagree with me which is fine but if you're wanting a good image outdoors, use the lowest speed film possible. So I'd stick with 200T or better yet, 50D. I wouldn't overexpose 2 stops by default. You can overexpose by a stop to get a little more shadow detail or if you're using a good Rank for the transfer, it can help reduce the grain. Ranks that don't have the proper amps for that kind of pull will actually cause MORE grain when the exposure is too high. But by over exposing by 2 stops, you run the risk of losing skin detail and that's exactly what you DON'T want. Also, the camera will expose 200T as 100D without any modification so it would already be over exposed. So you can just pop an 85b onto the lens and get that 1-stop overexosed by default with the proper colour. Or you could cut a notch in the cart to allow exposure to be 160ISO (close enough) by default and the internal 85 filer (which isn't very good) will operate.

Still, if you're just trying to ensure a good exposure, you want to expose per the rated speed of the film. What if the meter in the camera was already wanting to overexpose a stop? If you told the camera to over expose 2 stops, that'd be +3 stops which will DEFINITELY cause problems. Camera internal meters are often 1 or even 2 stops off cal. This is the reason I use a hand held meter to take an incident reading from my subject's perspective. That's the sure way to get a proper exposure every time (well almost anyhow). It amazes me that people will spend hundreds of dollars on a camera, thousands on film and transfers but not $80 on a good light meter. Regardless, overexposing will not ensure good exposure, it'll ensure overexposure. Exposing the film at its rated speed will ensure good exposure. Sorry if I sound like a jerk BTW. It IS generally better to over expose than under expose but I wouldn't go more than +1 according to a good handheld light meter. If you insist on using the camera's internal meter (which doesn't know what its subject is BTW, so if you have dark things like trees round the subject it will overexpose anyway), here's how I'd handle it. Cut a notch in the cart, disable the internal filter with that little screw-in key, use an external 85b filter and set the exposure to what the meter says. That'll allow room for errors in both directions, over and underexposure.

[T-Scan]

With the 814XLS and 200T outdoors: you will need an external 85 or 85B filter (62mm thread). The camera will read the un-notched cart as 100ASA, or 1 stop over. You can either manually compensate -1 stop on each reading... or there is a compensation dial near the pistol grip mount, you can adjust + or - 1/3rd stop increments up to 1 full stop. Set it all the way to -1 and you will be rating your film on the dot.

The other option is to cut a filter notch in the cart. Then you will not need an external filter. Cart wil be read as 160ASA. Set your filter switch on daylight. You exposure will still be 1/3rd over (i'd just leave it to tighten grain).

200T No filter notch: 200ASA, 160ASA notch with disabled filter = 100ASA rating. external filter cuts 2/3rds for effective 64ASA daylight rating (TTL compensates for external filter). Correct 200T daylight rating with 85 filter 125ASA. 814XLS with external filter= effective 64ASA vs filtered 200T daylight rating 125ASA= -1 stop compensation.

200T with filter notch cut: 200ASA, camera reads 160T or 100D with internal filter enabled. Camera rating 100D vs stock rating 125D= +1/3rd overexposure, or -1/3rd compensation.

[Mitch Perkins]

how much can i expect the latitude to forgive wrong exposure?

A whole big fat bunch.

something like 'overexpose two stops from auto reading and it should be fine'.

I don't think there's a button that says that on the 814xls. ~:?)

Here's what you do -

place cartridge in camera, aim lens at subject, depress film transport trigger. Okay, maybe lock off the exposure meter...

Happy shooting.

Mitch

[ossioskari]

place cartridge in camera, aim lens at subject, depress film transport trigger.

haha, thanks. that's actually what i wanted to hear.

what i meant was that usually i tend to overthink all the compensations and such like happened last time with velvia and 100D. in the end, all the material turned out good (to my unprofessional eye).

as far as i've understood the exposure difference between 160 and 200 is quite insignificant when shooting negative.

anyways, i think i'll notch the 200T and then just shoot away. mitch you're saying that 500T is ok as it is? i couldn't find the info at what asa my canon actually exposes it, maybe someone could still clarify this?

wado1942: thanks for your thoughts. however, as i was saying, 2 stops was just an example trying to make a point that i'm looking for a simple formula how to compensate exposure.

[T-Scan]

place cartridge in camera, aim lens at subject, depress film transport trigger. Okay, maybe lock off the exposure meter

If you want to be 1 full stop over... that can start to add grain. I would at least use the compensation dial and -1/3 or 2/3rds. As I mentioned above, it will only read as 160ASA if you cut a filter notch, else it's read as 100ASA in the 814XLS.

[Mitch Perkins]

place cartridge in camera, aim lens at subject, depress film transport trigger. Okay, maybe lock off the exposure meter

If you want to be 1 full stop over... that can start to add grain.

That hasn't been my experience - it's usually the under-exposed stuff that grains up, and only well past 1 stop, but hey...

I would at least use the compensation dial and -1/3 or 2/3rds. As I mentioned above, it will only read as 160ASA if you cut a filter notch, else it's read as 100ASA in the 814XLS.

Can't hurt...

Mitch

[Rick Palidwor]

If you want to be 1 full stop over... that can start to add grain.

I concur with Mitch: over-exposure will reduce grain, hence the general recommended to over-expose negative stocks.
Rick

[Justin Lovell]

ossioskari wrote:
something like 'overexpose two stops from auto reading and it should be fine'.

If you need to, there is a exposure compensation dial on the side of the camera (on the camera loading side). You can make auto exposure adjustments in increments on there.

[S8 Booster]

this V200T frame is captured from the "default" shot cartridge - ie exposed in auto at iso 100 - no filter notch = no 85 filter.

cam was 1014 xls.

after i discovered the improper cart notching i did verify and re-shot it. can not find the other img at this time but the end-result was identicsal - probably due to post colout correction.

sample: shot at 100D, no 85 fil:
http://www.filmshooting.com/scripts/gal ... deV200Bats



more samples from the same shoot: 250D + 500T coorectly exposed - basically same motif....
http://www.filmshooting.com/scripts/gal ... rum?page=1
http://www.filmshooting.com/scripts/gal ... rum?page=2

[ossioskari]

If you need to, there is a exposure compensation dial on the side of the camera (on the camera loading side). You can make auto exposure adjustments in increments on there.

yes! this is what i'm after on this post, but obviously i'm not making myself clear. should stop drinking or access the forum in the mornings, i guess.

i would like to make auto exposure compensation while shooting vision stocks. 200t is covered quite extensively already (thanks t-scan!), but i'm still unsure how to treat 500t. how does my camera read the film, if someone knows, i'd highly appreciate it. thanks.

s8 Booster, thanks for your samples! this is just according to my experience of overdoing things, and still getting more or less identical results.

[schoft]

Also, the camera will expose 200T as 100D without any modification so it would already be over exposed.

Maybe a stupid question, but , is this true ? The specs for 814xl-s says:

Film Speed Automatic ISO setting by film cartridge
Tungsten type film: ISO 25, 40, 64, 100, 160, 250 and 400
Daylight type film: ISO 16, 25, 40, 64, 100, 160 and 250

Wouldn't it expose 160 or 250 with 200T ?

[wado1942]

200T carts are notched as 100D for some reason.

[schoft]

200T carts are notched as 100D for some reason.

It all becomes very clear, thanks !

[freddiesykes]

I might be shooting a promo (not porno) in a club with an 814xl-s in very dark conditions. Would 200T be fast enough?