child actors

[TeN]

I've had this idea for a short film bouncing around in my head for a while now, but I'm wary to attempt it
it's not a complicated film, but it's more ambitious than anything I've attempted before, and will certainly cost me more than anything I've shot before
but I think the reason I'm most hesitant is because the film would require a child actor... possibly two or three child actors
in addition to this, there would be no adult actors, and no dialogue (which puts a lot more pressure on the child actor to perform well)
I've considered shooting on DV just so that I wouldn't have to worry about wasting a ton on film, but I just can't bring myself to do it
picturing the film in my mind, it has to be B&W Super 8 or nothing at all
digital just won't look right (and 16mm is too expensive... not to mention I don't have access to a camera)
there's also the issue that I don't have a lot of experience working with actors (mostly I've just used my friends and immediate family) and I don't have enough money to hire actors
I've thought about all my relatives, and although I can think of a handful of people who might be able to fit the part, I'm not sure if they'd be able to act or even have the patience to try, and I'm not sure I can risk burning film as they try things over and over

so, basically everything is against me, but strangely, I still want to make the film

I guess some of the questions I have are:
- does anyone have experience working with child actors (or even better, children with no acting experience)? any advice you can give? should I just stay away from the idea entirely?
- I know it's sometimes possible to get actors who are just starting out to work for free in student short films. these are usually student actors trying to get experience and build up a resume though, and I'm assuming that it's impossible to find child actors who will work for free. am wrong to assume that?

[audadvnc]

Child non-actors get bored quickly and tend to clam up in front of a camera when they know it's rolling. Make it a game for them so they'll think of it as an enjoyable experience, otherwise you'll just be wasting your time and theirs.

Also, consider shooting rehearsals in video - this technique gives you backup and lessens the child's nervousness when you roll film. Decolorized (b&w) video seems to intercut more gracefully with film than color video, so your backup shots won't stick out as bad as you think they might. Try it and see if it'll work.

[mattias]

i've worked a lot with child actors, professional and amateurs. basically it's the same thing as always, you have to make them trust you.

i'm a very childish person so it's easy for me to do that. not to the point where they see me as one of them of course, but maybe like a kindergarten teacher or whatever. i can play, i hug, i crack stupid jokes, but i'm also the boss. :-)

there's a great chapter about working with children and amateurs in judith weston's directing actors. read it.

/matt

[steve hyde]

"so, basically everything is against me, but strangely, I still want to make the film"

You should watch Les Blank's film "Werner Herzog eats his Shoe" for inspiration.

...I am working on documentary films and I do not have any experience directing actors, but I do have some limited experience directing. And my experiences include directing children.

I agree with Mattias about trust - you have to earn their trust and you also have to use their eventual boredom (lack of attention span) to your advantage. It all depends on the mood and performance you want from them... something to think about: how can you influence the mood to be what you want. Tears and anguish require tears and anguish. Hamming it up in front of the camera is easy.

One thing to consider is multiple cameras - even if they are not all running. It is probably best that they not know which camera is recording them.

What is your story about?

Steve

[TeN]

You should watch Les Blank's film "Werner Herzog eats his Shoe" for inspiration.

seen it. very inspiring (and hillarious) stuff. Herzog is one of my heroes - moreso for his attitude than his style. some examples: he made his early films having no prior experience or education in film beyond a filmmaking encylopedia he read when he was fourteen, and using a 35mm camera he stole from a university and financed by money earned working in a steel factory. he emphasizes life experience as the most important thing a filmmaker can have (more important than talent, filmmaking experience, knowledge of film, etc.) and considers walking and cooking as the only things comparable to filmmaking. he has a passionate hatred of commercialism, and feels it's destroying art and cinema. after being shot during an interview, he was quoted as saying "It was not a significant bullet. I am not afraid." the guy is an incredibly inspiring human being.
coincidentaly, I just rented both Even Dwarfs Started Small and Gates of Heaven from Netflix. haven't seen either so I'm looking forward to watching those.

thanks for all the advice so far.
I've been told that I'm "great with children" and I tend to be able to relate to my cousins to the point where they'll want to play games with me and feel comfortable talking to me, etc. that's an especially good thing as they are the children I'd be considering using as my actors.

I think one of the most problematic things with my film is the roles that I'm asking them to play - they're not the typical roles children play. the film has a surrealist bent, and although I don't want to give away the plot (I feel kind of silly telling people the plot anyway, as it has such a heavy reliance on visuals that description doesn't do justice to how I imagine it) part of the thematic focus is the idea of a world without adults. this means that the children have to act like adults. of course I know that they'll come off looking like children trying to play the roles of adults, and that's what I'm aiming for. I feel like this is a difficult task - there's no dialogue, no laughter, not even a smile. it would be easier to "make it a game for them" or to "crack stupid jokes" and have a good time with them, but I fear that being silly will stear them away from the type of performance I'm looking for.

[steve hyde]

part of the thematic focus is the idea of a world without adults. this means that the children have to act like adults. of course I know that they'll come off looking like children trying to play the roles of adults, and that's what I'm aiming for. I feel like this is a difficult task - there's no dialogue, no laughter, not even a smile. it would be easier to "make it a game for them" or to "crack stupid jokes" and have a good time with them, but I fear that being silly will stear them away from the type of performance I'm looking for.

That sounds interesting and maybe not too difficult since children tend to be very perceptive when it comes to observing, and learning, the behaviors of the adults around them. I could see them having fun with this idea of pretending to be adults - especially if you find a way to set them up to play this game: costumes, a setting that makes them feel *adult*. Once you get them into character make sure you stop speaking to them like children. It seems like the challenge will be to create this surreal world around them..

Steve

[timdrage]

You should watch Les Blank's film "Werner Herzog eats his Shoe" for inspiration.

I think everyone should watch that for inspiration for every film! ^_^

part of the thematic focus is the idea of a world without adults. this means that the children have to act like adults.

Sounds like a really interesting idea. Possibly you should also watch Herzog's "Even Dwarfs Started Small" too!

Good luck with the project!