Would anyone like to give me feedback on these story boards

[Scotness]

These are the story boards for the opening scene in my short film Hold Me Tight if anyone would like to give me any feedback on them (apart from the obvious ie. I can't draw and I need a darker pencil!).

I'm particularly interested in any feedback on the editing and the shot selection. There's one slight jump cut from Shot 31 to Shot 32 which I think should be alright but we're going to film it straight through so if it doesn't work we can do a real time cut anyway. There's no emphasis on the soldier chasing him (once he escapes) as I don't want it to be about the chase but just the convicts escape and journey - and entering this new world by himself.

I haven't gone through and done any breakdowns or scheduling from this yet but will shortly. Equipment wise we're going to need a jib/crane and a dolly - so it should make for an involved day of shooting. I've already got both boats lined up too which is good. We're building a shoulder mount for my R16 but we're going to need to water proof it somehow for the stuff in the water. Any ideas on that would be good. But in keeping with some really good points raised in this tread I'm more interested in the hearing about the shot selection and interpretation of the script at this stage.

The aim of this film is just to be a calling card/show reel kind of thing which we can show to potential investors/funding bodies. I want to be able to show something that we don't have to make any excuses for and just be able to say - well this is what we can do with little money and a short film - imagine what we could do with real money and a feature film. (So the dream goes anyway )

Scot

[Scotness]

bump ....anyone? (before it slips off the front page)

[mattias]

i had a quick look. they are quite badly drawn, so it's hard for somebody who doesn't know the film to understand it, but it seems like you know what you're doing. i think you should add more wide shots. and maybe mark the eyeline/axis in the frontal shots. that's it for now.

/matt

[bobjazz]

is it normal to ask peoples opinions of storyboards?
im not sure what kind of reaction your searching for by showing these pictures. they dont make any sense to me.
AND WHY THE HELL SHOULD THEY!!!
to me story boards are all about clarifying your ideas (and for me detailing things im sure ill forget)
this isnt just aimed at you. i just got Scorsese's 'whos that knocking at my door' special dvd which shows the storyboards for his film and their just as bad as yours(no offense : )
i can understand you wanting to open up your idea to people but perhaps share the story more than what you want it to look like.

though i could be(and often am) wrong

[reflex]

The first shot is marked as a black screen to be added in post, with the sound of water/rowing in the background.

Instead, I'd pan/tilt off the water to lead the boat with an extreme long shot. That way you establish the surroundings and bring the viewer into your world.

I'm also not sure about having the convict doing the rowing - makes him seem like he's in charge.

From shot 42 -- Cameron's run: Keep the camera REALLY tight. He's desperate and fleeing, so keep us off-balance. The storyboard you've given us would serve as good master shots, but you need lots of pick-ups to keep it from feeling loose and boring -- hand-held CU/XCU shots, shots of running feet, arms moving, jumping over brush, running through branches, running POV, etc. You could also shoot at a slightly slower frame rate to give it energy.

Keep things tight as he splashes & swims through the water. He's clothed and tired, so perhaps he gasps a few mouthfuls of water & struggles to make it -- when he makes it to the shore, he can then honestly collapse and you can dolly back from a medium shot to relax.

Now you've got us hooked. He made it --the viewer wants to know what happens next...

I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

[mattias]

storyboard are meant to communicate your vision to others as well. i never draw them though, just write a description of every shot, and i do draw floor plans. both work well both for clearifying to myself what i'm doing and for letting the crew know what we're doing and what to do next...

/matt

[bobjazz]

my inexperience shines through
ive obviosly got alot to learn about story boards

[MovieStuff]

Well, it's sort of hard to follow but I can tell from the opening two cuts that one problem you will encounter is the similarity of angles between the two people. Because you are shooting them head on and facing opposite ends of the same boat, there will be a sort of "jump cut" effect where one person suddenly becomes the other person. I would suggest trying to shoot them from a slight 3/4 angle so that you get a sense of them facing screen left and right, respectively.

Also, if you lower your camera so that you see only the top of the boat, then it doesn't really even have to be in the water. You can always insert a master shot of the boat with the two people rowing along but for the medium and closeups, the boat could be on a trailer with the trees slowly moving by in the background. All you have to do is add the sound of disturbed water each time the actor rows to complete the illusion. It would make your set ups much easier.

Roger

[DriveIn]

....I'm also not sure about having the convict doing the rowing - makes him seem like he's in charge.......

Seems to me that is exactly what being in charge is about, having someone else do the work for you at your urging.

....Because you are shooting them head on and facing opposite ends of the same boat, there will be a sort of "jump cut" effect where one person suddenly becomes the other person....

I think this might work well if there is a distinct difference in the actors. A small craft with two people face to face might help put the viewer in the place of each, or one or the other. I guess it depends on how often the camera is cutting back and forth between the two people. Side shots could be interlaced in the shots. The face to face scenes would occur while they are in the boat together, not for the whole film. Is there any form of cliche that applies to these types of scenes? :?

[reflex]

I'm also not sure about having the convict doing the rowing - makes him seem like he's in charge.......Seems to me that is exactly what being in charge is about, having someone else do the work for you at your urging.

Think in terms of the audience experience. The film starts with a man rowing a boat. If he were chained in irons, we'd automatically see him as "prisoner," but the danger here is that he might be viewed as a peasant worker or servant rather than a convict.

[steve hyde]

Scot,

I'd be happy to do this, although it is a bit confounding to jump right into storyboards. How about an abstract that tells us what you are trying to do.. What is the story about? Who are the characters? What happens to them and how do they deal with it? I find it difficult to critique the introduction to a film when I don't know what the introduction is introducing.

Are you using any forums that place focus on screenwriting? I wonder if there are forums that find focus on character development (??)

I went out to this site once: http://www.zoetrope.com/

but haven't had the time to get into it. It looks sort of interesting and could be fruitful for your screenwriting project. ....just a few suggestions (hope this helps)

Cheers,

Steve

[DriveIn]

....I'm also not sure about having the convict doing the rowing - makes him seem like he's in charge.......

Seems to me that is exactly what being in charge is about, having someone else do the work for you at your urging.

Think in terms of the audience experience. The film starts with a man rowing a boat. If he were chained in irons, we'd automatically see him as "prisoner," but the danger here is that he might be viewed as a peasant worker or servant rather than a convict.

This is a 180 degree shift from the convict appearing in charge for rowing. Like I said, being in charge is that the guard is not rowing but the servant, convict, peasant, worker is doing the rowing. Making him out to be the prisoner is another issue, in addition to having him row. Only issue here is if the guard appeared a passenger rather than a guard. Character development as Steve Hyde has mentioned seems the issue after this point of our own exchange. 'Nuff said from me. :roll:

[Scotness]

Thanks for the feedback guys - I'll think the comments through in detail later - but a few quick responses:

Matt Marking the eyeline/axis is a good idea - but how exactly do you mean - just a cross in the centre of frame or somethng - I don't quite understand

bobjazz You kind of anwered your own question I guess - check this threadtoo for some of the reasoning/value in doing this

reflex I like your intro - your other ideas are good too - I'll think about them - thanks for going to the effort to look at it all in detail

Roger It's no way obvious form these bad scans of bad drawings :oops: but the two costumes will be totally different - a British red coat and convict rags - so hopefully that inadvertant jump cut effect won't be a problem - but it's a good idea shooting from the angle too - about the boat I've got an actual period wooden boat so I want to try and do it on the water - even if just for the experience - but if it's problematic we'll try what you're suggesting

drive-in Yeah the soldier will be smirking so it will be quite clear who's working for who!

Steve Yeah I know it can be confounding and only of limited value - but that's why I included the script section the pics come from - but I agree still of limited value with out more info, though as you can see some good can come from it - there's more background info on the site for the film though

Anyway thanks guys - the shot side of it all is definitely something I've got to work on - it's funny you know - I'm scanning and OCR'ing the first film script I ever wrote at the moment - it's called PRAWN and it's about a giant prawn that attacks a fishing villiage (seriously! - one day it'll get made :roll: ) - I wrote it back in 1985 - and the whole script has every shot detailed in it - then every bit if advice I got was don't detail your shots when you write a script - so I stopped and it was quite hard to do actually - so I'm just trying to get back into that now. (but I won't put them in the script unless imperative - that much I agree with - it makes scripts too hard to read)

Anyway thanks for the feedback - anymore is welcome too

Scot

[norb]

...just write a description of every shot, and i do draw floor plans. both work well both for clearifying to myself what i'm doing and for letting the crew know what we're doing and what to do next...

i find floor plans/camera setups are pretty useful, if you're like me and can't draw too well. they can give you a better idea of the space you're filming instead of a series of 2d drawings, and as mattias mentioned earlier, they're nice for planning a shot order and lighting setups as well.

[8th Man]

I've seen worse boards. I briefly taught storyboarding at an art school and do boarding for animation for a living. I can offer some suggestions in addition to what's been said here already.
I will say though that what you have is a good start and your inexperience doesn't change the fact that it will help you to set up shots later since you have a better idea of what you want beforehand.You can solve many problems long before getting to your location.
What you have currently is flat space left to right staging. There's nothing wrong with that as an artistic decision. However this may be because of limitations in your drawing more than anything else.
Do you want things to work in a flatter space? or do you want things to work with deeper space with elements in perspective? Or a combination of both where it provides you with more visual contrast.
I'd definitely like to see a wide shot early on to give a sense of where they are or at least that they're alone out on the water. It would also break up the monotany of too many medium shots.Does porter have a gun? If he has a hand gun on his belt, you could have the camera low with the gun in the foreground while cameron's rowing and that would help establish the relationship beween the two. As well as having Porter sitting somewhat higher in his seat than Cameron so he can look a bit more menacing as he watches down on Cameron.
Also the characters are almost always in separate shots, I think it would be stronger to have them in shots together more often as in "over the shoulder" compositions so that there is a visual contrast when Cameron runs away and the two are separate.
I keep thinking of a long shot of Porter way up on the hill and the boat where Cameron was sitting in the foreground just before you cut to a close up Cameron's feet running in a tracking shot, then up to his face.
It would actually be easier for me to draw it out than to describe it.