Resolution of super8

[MadDougK]

Hey everybody, long time reader first time poster. I remember doing super8 way back in the early 80's and having a lot of fun. I have recently gotten back into it with the purcahse of a Beaulieu 4008zmII. I just read on super8mans web site that super8 has about 1200 lines of resolution, is that correct? That seems to be close to HD cam quality. I also have a DVX100 that I have done a few shorts with, and it has the standard NTSC resolution of 525. Another question is if I telecine super8 will there be black bars at the top and bottom, like supe16?

[pbrstreetgang]

I just read on super8mans web site that super8 has about 1200 lines of resolution, is that correct?

more like 1200 grains of resolution. and i love each and every one of them.

[MadDougK]

Does anyone know the line resolution of super8, just curious.?

[downix]

You can't rate Super8, or any film, by LOR. It doesn't work like that. Different filmstocks, different lenses, all behave differently.

[christoph]

Another question is if I telecine super8 will there be black bars at the top and bottom, like supe16?

nope, super8 has a full screen ratio (unless you mess with the gate or mask it in telecine)

as for the resolution: it's hard to get out more than 600 lp with super8.. but very few super8 films consists of resolution targets, so you shouldnt worry too much ;)

++ christoph ++

[FilmIs4Ever]

I don't know. I think Kodachrome 40 might be a bit higher than 600 lines. It all depends on the glass you're using too though, so unless you have some nice glass, you aren't getting the best your camera has to offer. Film isn't usually preferred to video because of its higher resolution though, it's because of the higher dynamic range and the control the cinematographer has over it (requires good lighting of course).

Regards.
~Karl Borowski

[MadDougK]

Ok. I am going to be experimenting with minolta slr lens using an adapter. Can I expect to get nice shallow depth of field or will I have the same problems that I have using my DVX?

[scott]

Ok. I am going to be experimenting with minolta slr lens using an adapter. Can I expect to get nice shallow depth of field or will I have the same problems that I have using my DVX?

Just as in still photography, DOF is mainly dependent on f stop and focal length. A higher f stop (f22) will result is a larger DOF, while lower (f8 or below) will give you a more shallow DOF. If you are shooting in bright sunlight you will probably need a neutral density filter to achieve the lower f stop. I know that it you are shooting in bright sunlight with K40 with your average S8 camera, the aperture will close down to f16 or f22. This will be even more true with XL cameras due to their 220 deg shutter which equates to about a 1/30 sec shutter speed (at 18fps). Shooting at 24 fps will increase the effective shutter speed, also allowing you to open the aperture a bit more. A longer focal length will also reduce your DOF.

I was shooting some close-ups with a screw on close-up lens, and the DOF was tiny.

Good luck, and if I am off on any of this, someone please jump in and tell me I'm full of shit.

Cheers,

Scott

[francis]

the rough guide from kodak was 10 lines per mm was possible..at the time the 200t neg was 200, and thats gone up

[S8 Booster]

Theory:

The Kodak Resolution static Spec for K40 is 80 lpmm at 20% resonse which equals about 440 line pairs total for a S8 frame which is the highest teoretical value....

A realistic everyday value is 50 lpmm with a reasonably good lens, decent light + + + + + + = 275 lpmm for a S8 frame.

Anyway, on the run the K40 easily knocks off the 440 lpmm and if I remember correctly 630 lpmm is no big deal.

R

[super8man]

I guess I should dig around and update that reference to the 600+ lpmm. One day.

[christoph]

Ok. I am going to be experimenting with minolta slr lens using an adapter. Can I expect to get nice shallow depth of field or will I have the same problems that I have using my DVX?

DOP of super8 will be about the same as with video since the frame area is about the same size and therefore you'll want to use about the same focal lenghts (ie in the 6-25mm area). of course you can reduce the DOP by using a 50mm+ still lens, but this is only really usefull for wildlife photography ;)

++ christoph ++

[MadDougK]

I understand how to get shallow DOF on any cam, ie; shooting at the long end of the lens, and using NDs so that I can shoot wide open, proper lighting etc etc, but my question is how is an SLR lens going to work with the super8 frame, in regards to flange focal problems or barrel distortion and the like. I know alot of people on the DVXuser site are trying to cobble together these adapters that allow them to use better glass in front of the DVX cams, like SLR lens' which would allow better depth of field, supposedly. My answer to that is to simply shoot on film. So i'm curious as to whether or not someone here has used one of these adapters and the reults I can expect. Thanks.

PS. When I get the adapter i'll post some footage, from super8 and 16mm, on my website.

[plutone]

If you telecine to DV and finish a show in FCP are you losing some image quality? Is it better to telecine to another format like Beta, digibeta et al? It sure seems convenient to go straight to DV and load it the firewire entrance.

[VideoFred]

Resolution is all about amount and size of grain, right?
Grain is the 'pixel' of film, right?
Filmgrain is between 0.1 and 3 micron.(according to Kodak)
1 micron= 1/1000mm.

Suppose film grain is 2 micron. One Super-8 frame is about 6x4mm.
This means a resolution of 3000x2000 grains, if they are not clustered. (but they are).

I don't know if we can translate this resolution straight to digital.
3000x2000 pixels? It's a lot, right? To convert this to digital, you schould have a 3000x2000 CCD, right? But it differs a lot. With my 1024x768 camera, I see lots of grain on some films..., maybe clustered grain? It's not digital noise, I see it with the projector, too.

But film is, compared to digital, so awesome smooth....(I'm crying, now {|= )



Fred.