Projected Image Area Dimensions?

[Dave Anderson]

Could anyone tell me what the actual image area is for 8, S8, and 16? I suppose that there are many variables, but are there any standards or averages? From what I've been able to Google, I've gotten these dimensions:

S8 - 5.3mm x 4mm
16mm - 9.65 x 7.24
R8 - ??

Thanks.

Dave Anderson

[monobath]

Seems like there was a recent discussion that touched on this sometime within the past couple of weeks.

There are some interesting ANSI film specs in this Kodak PDF document for 16mm and 35mm films, but I think it mainly discusses film dimensions, not image area.

[VideoFred]

There is this picture from the gallery on this site....
http://www.8mm.filmshooting.com/scripts ... ifications


Fred.

[S8 Booster]

From a previous post: ANSI spec: Originally posted:

[All inch figures * 25,4 = result in mm]

Super 8mm Film Gauge Width = .314 inches
Super 8mm Camera Frame Width = .224
Super 8mm Camera Frame Height = .166
Frame Pitch = .1667 inches
Perforation Length = .045 inches
Perforation Width = .036 inches
Spacing from Outside Edge of Main Track to opposite film edge = .312 inches
Spacing from Inside Edge of Main Track to opposite film edge = .285 inches
Main (Track #1) Magnetic Stripe Spacing = .029 inches
Main Track Magnetic Stripe Tape Width = [.80mm]
Balance (Track #2) Magnetic Stripe Spacing = .020 inches
Balance Track Magnetic Stripe Tape Width [.45mm]

MAXIMUM PROJECTABLE FILM IMAGE AREA:
(Film as seen from inside projector when looking towards the direction of the
lens)

Super 8mm Projection Frame Width = .209 inches [*25,4 for mm]
Super 8mm Projection Frame Height = .158 inches Maximum [*25,4 for mm]
Distance from Bottom Edge of Perforation
to Bottom Edge of Projection Frameline = .056 inches
Width of Space from Perforation Side Edge of Projection Frameline to Actual
Edge of Super 8mm Film = .065 inches

R

[Dave Anderson]

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated! Anything on 16mm?

Dave

[S8 Booster]

Santo posted this link - it covers most formats it seems.
Should refere to image area on the film.

http://www.film-center.com/formats.html

R

[Santo]

Could anyone tell me what the actual image area is for 8, S8, and 16? I suppose that there are many variables, but are there any standards or averages? From what I've been able to Google, I've gotten these dimensions:

S8 - 5.3mm x 4mm
16mm - 9.65 x 7.24
R8 - ??

Thanks.

Dave Anderson

I thought I should add a link to the thread where this discussion occured as well for future reference:

http://www.8mm.filmshooting.com/scripts ... 48&start=0

As can be seen, actual frame area on the film is somewhat wider than is cropped in a "spec" projector. It is closer to 1:36:1 (and typically a touch wider, based on measuring real world uncropped frames). This becomes potentially important during transfers to video, though is pretty much irrelevant with regards to projected area dimensions unless one has modified their projector gate.

[Dave Anderson]

Could anyone tell me what the actual image area is for 8, S8, and 16? I suppose that there are many variables, but are there any standards or averages? From what I've been able to Google, I've gotten these dimensions:

S8 - 5.3mm x 4mm
16mm - 9.65 x 7.24
R8 - ??

Thanks.

Dave Anderson

Wow. So reading through the various threads, I've concluded that the image area for S8 can be anywhere from:

5.31mm x 4.01mm (ansi specs)
5.46mm x 4.01mm (diagram in the 8mm.shooting. gallery)
5.79mm x 4.14mm (http://member.melbpc.org.au/~cksm/Formats.html)

This makes me wonder if the *Physical* image area might be 5.79mm x 4.14mm, and the *Projected* image area might be 5.31mm x 4.01mm?

Dave

[Carlos 8mm]

Hi,
I found this picture in an old amateurish filmmaking book (1958)



Super 8 full frame size is 5.69 x 4.234 mm
Pojected area: 5.46 x 4.01 mm

Hope this helps,
Carlos.

[Santo]

Dave, you've got the problem right! The "standard" quoted so much is based on the absolute minimum image area developed no doubt based on the worst point and shoot cameras in super 8 history. Nearly all projectors are cropped to accomodate this lowest of all standards (ie: smallest of frame sizes) unless modified.

Image area reduced to the lowest common denominator.

Today, we've got people like Roger Evans modifying the projectors he used in his justifiably praised and successful line of Workprinters to potentially take advantage of the much larger image size which using the best super 8 cameras generate. Also, quality rank, spirit, shadow and other scanned professional transfer systems enable the ability to get maximum image area out of the super 8 frame.

Here's a crazy idea for film projection die-hards: if you've got the precision instruments, why not enlarge the gate on your super 8 projectors and get an improvement of maybe 10% on the quality of your images? Not that easy, I'll admit, but the potential is there.

No doubt quality cameras like Nizos, Canons, Nikons, Beaulieus, top end Bauers et all are capturing maximum frames. I know by looking at film from my Nizos, Bauers, Canons, and Zeiss cameras that they are.