Lost Knowledge

[Astro]

I've been selling Super-8 gear and film for 8 years...too long but it's great to see Super-8 doing so well...But there's a problem....Where is the Photographic Knowledge. I don't expect everyone to be technical, but I least presumed everyone knew the difference between film and video....Maybe some people think they're watching a giant television when they catch a Movie at the local cinema.
The point is, Lost Knowledge leads to a deline in use...Probably more so in stills photography....Digital cameras require no Brain?.. Some customers I sell film to use only one stock for every kind of lighting...then on the return of their film from the lab I expect the disappointment as another roll of black leader has been processed. Most of the time I try to nip it in the bud before it happens...Explaining the differences and application of each stock..but even then..it's too much information....Maybe film is just too complicated. Selling 16mm is even more difficult..negative and positive as 'words' have been discontiuned. So whats needed?...well sites like this are my first point of reference for new customers. Education in photography is important..It's both a craft and an Art form...Sorry for the rambling. Astro

[matt5791]

I've been selling Super-8 gear and film for 8 years...too long but it's great to see Super-8 doing so well...But there's a problem....Where is the Photographic Knowledge. I don't expect everyone to be technical, but I least presumed everyone knew the difference between film and video....Maybe some people think they're watching a giant television when they catch a Movie at the local cinema.
The point is, Lost Knowledge leads to a deline in use...Probably more so in stills photography....Digital cameras require no Brain?.. Some customers I sell film to use only one stock for every kind of lighting...then on the return of their film from the lab I expect the disappointment as another roll of black leader has been processed. Most of the time I try to nip it in the bud before it happens...Explaining the differences and application of each stock..but even then..it's too much information....Maybe film is just too complicated. Selling 16mm is even more difficult..negative and positive as 'words' have been discontiuned. So whats needed?...well sites like this are my first point of reference for new customers. Education in photography is important..It's both a craft and an Art form...Sorry for the rambling. Astro

What would be excellent is a NEW, MODERN, SHORT book covering the basics in very simple language with an apporachable title eg. - "Real Film Making for Beginners" or "Introduction to Motion Picture Photography in Super8 and 16mm"

I think that this would be very helpful indeed! Most of the books out there which deal with small guage film making were written more than 10 yeras ago and so they are totally out of date (although obviously carry much valuable information).

A new book could deal with all the latest film emulsions, where to buy them, listings of web addresses, different type of transfers (very important) etc etc there are a whole host of things not dealt with in older publications.

Excellent as the web is at providing information, you have to wade through loads of rubbish and then pick out the relevent and, more importantly, accurate parts! If you are new or just a little interested your interest could soon fade....

When my father got his first movie camera in 1981 he also bough a small book called super8 film making. He studied this and all his films for the word go were excellent home movies. But this book is, today, totally outdated. When it was written it was aimed primarily at people making home movies. Nowadays people using super8 and 16mm are, much of the time, not making home movies, and neither are they using the same film stocks or the same editing techniques etc etc etc etc etc......

Matt

[T-Scan]

A new book, now there's an idea. stand it up on camera store counters.. "the new testiment of super 8 film making". if only for shock value to unaware costumers. edgimication, yes.. I think S-8 has a stain mainly from the days of mass usage. just like stills today, people bought the generic film that said "good for indoors and outside" not usually the case and shot Ekta 160 in bright daylight hand held out of focus, at least my Grandpa did. you could make 70mm look like shit too in same circumstances :?

[studiocarter]

Not another book, I say make a DVD data disk "book". On a DVD data disk you have one huge web, everything is linked by menus and links. You can have background music on some pages, movies, still pictures, voice overs; webs have vast potential that books just can't cope with.
If you are going to type about movie photography in several chapters, I hope, you should show movie clips. One short clip showing how to do somethig could take many pages to write about. All my research is made into webs. One DVD can hold all my webs made to date and lots of room over that. I need to go back and add full sized videos instead of VCDs. My webs on line got too large; there have been more than several different versions online. Now, I can only put hints of what I'm working on online; the meat goes onto DVD disks. Besides, actual photography, retouching, scanning, typesetting, layout, writing, printing, paper, distribution, publishing costs a lot of money. Web creation only takes one person, a PC, a web writing program, a video camera, and a still camera and or scanner. Most of us (read me) already have that much.

[TomFoolery]

I know what your saying, Astro. I instruct a few classes at DFC, http://www.detroitfilm.org and the demographics of people registering for classes says it all. The film classes are always hard to fill. Sometimes they have to be delayed or cancelled until enough people are interested. I think Experimental Film, which is a phenomenal class w/direct application, hand processing and the like, has been cancelled the last two times. While classes like digital video, final cut, flash, etc. are very popular. I'm not saying it's wrong, just a sign of the times, but it is a bit sad. Can't say I'm helping the cause, though, seeing that I teach After Effects and Digital Video Production. :? But 16mm and super 8 is always my first choice, and I always preach about the quality film has over video. But mini DV is just so much more accessible now.

I like the idea of a new book on super 8. Flicker did put out a small book/large pamphlet type thing a few years back. Good updated info on labs, projection techniques, film stock and more. However, more in-depth book would be really cool. Maybe have the DVD or CD-R come with the book, like supplemental material. I think a book is important though. Something the filmmaker can have with him/her when on a shoot for reference. Besides, in a way Super 8 is to Digital Video what books are to DVD's. SAVE THE SUPER 8 & BOOKS FROM EXTINCTION!!!

[matt5791]

The problem is that there just are not any publicatins along these lines.

Whilst a book can not obviously show movie clips etc. it has many other advantages.

Whilst I have spent hours seeking out information on the net and other non book sources I can say that I have learnt the majority of my theory from three main books (Cinematography by Kris Malkewickz; Practical Cinematography by Paul Wheeler and The Gorilla Filmakers hand book. one or two other books have also contributed)

I have then been able to take my camera out into the field, and view the results.

The great thing about a book, if you are a total beginner - and this is what we are concerned with here - is that there is a structure of chapters, starting at the begining and telling the reader what he wants to know first and then progressing on to more advanced areas. This is very important. A book is focussed as the author intended in the structure intended - in this case ideally to help rectify the problems highlighted by astro.

Although a DVD data disk would also be helpful, I think a SHORT book to deal with the basics so people don't ruin film and get put off for life.

Matt

[pelluet]

It's got to be a book, I like the idea of supplementing it with a DVD though showing effects and examples but a book is just special in the way that super 8 is.

I also think that with the rise in popularity of super 8 now would be a good time for someone enterprising to look at launching a new magazine along the lines of the old 'Movie Maker'. If it were done in conjunction with a site like this it could document all the pearls of wisdom from the contributers to the forum.

It would have to cover all things small guage though to make it viable but there is certainly plenty of material out there!

Mike

[David M. Leugers]

I often think while reading some of the newer members postings, that I wonder why they have not read a book or two on film making. That is a great place to start and will anwser most if not all their questions. Would you start any hobby without reading up on it so that you could be knowledgeable and enjoy the aspects of the hobby? This is not a slam, just that I think they would really start to enjoy film if they were to endeavor to learn as much as they could before setting out to make a film. Lenny Lipton's "Independent Film Making" and Brodsky and Treadway's "Super 8mm in the Video Age" are two must reads. There are other great books as well.


David M. Leugers

[marc]

I remember a book a that was published a few years back called " What is the NFL?" for people who knew nothing about American Football. If there was a book that catered to the clueless along those same lines it would be a tremendous advantage to the VIDIOT community. The above mentioned book talked about everything down to the most basic rules of the game. Maybe a new filmmaking book with the same philosophy in mind could mention some of the popular buz words and lingo that most of the people here are familiar with. It could point out that the reason that some media looks like shit is because of the choice of format / medium. When I was growing up, I wish someone could have given me a suitable explanation as to why the daytime soaps looked like they were shot in Hellsville with the most depressive looking atmospheres.

[Actor]

Lenny Lipton's "Independent Film Making" and Brodsky and Treadway's "Super 8mm in the Video Age" are two must reads.

Unfortunately Brodsky and Treadway's Super 8 in the Video Age is a perfect example of "outdated." Most of the book's content is directed at users of sound striped film which, as we all know, is no longer available. The book needs a serious re-write to bring it up to date but I don't think B&T are going to do this.

[David M. Leugers]

Unfortunately Brodsky and Treadway's Super 8 in the Video Age is a perfect example of "outdated." Most of the book's content is directed at users of sound striped film which, as we all know, is no longer available

Yes, I see where that could mislead lots of people who are not aware that there is no sound film available. There is still a lot of excellent info, and you can still get your film post striped so much of that info is still usable for those who want to project their films. I too would love to see a much needed update. What book(s) would you recommend?

David M. Leugers

[S8 Booster]

In my view a suitable book will break down |any?] obstacles.

I once borrowed a really good book which I can not recall the name of - too bad - it covered all in a very professional way and a big part was about real filmmaking. Also there was scenes from famous films broken down in every detail from storyboard start to the finished film.

I copyed it but it may be gone. If I find it I will post the name.

R

[S8 Booster]

just found some linx to recommnded pro? books:

http://www.8mm.filmshooting.com/knowled ... /index.php

http://www.super8filmmaking.com/s8lit.htm

http://www.cinematography.net/Books.htm

http://www.xs4all.nl/~wichm/cinelink.html#LITERATURE

r

[Old Uncle Barry]

Well Regular8,more power to your electronic elbow BUT websites/DVD based stuff needs to be updated and up to date,as otherwise people will turn to looking up what they need on paper-books that is,remember them?
All photgraphic knowledge is out there and indeed a totally theoretical website/DVD would be most advantageous.Get your sums right and you will have a winner.