I Saw The Light Today....

[S8 Booster]

And it sure wasnt any good.......

[S8 Booster]

To enlighten a bit; I saw Sony 4K cam and Sony 4K Tv, running 4K demo though.
It looks no better than my Sony HJ10 1980x or something and the colour flaws in low light filmshooting (think of a pub) remiined me of old VHS imagery minus the contour effects but the colours in low light was really bad (smeared).

This was in NTSC land so that may be part of shitty equation but still...

[JeremyC]

This was in NTSC land so that may be part of shitty equation but still...

NTSC land no longer exists, instead 29.97 is the only remaining aspect of NTSC land, apart from legacy video tapes in libraries.

[Angus]

Not sure I would agree. I saw Sony 4K in Las Vegas some 18 months ago and I was pretty impressed. Certainly I felt it was the way forward.

However the caveat is that I saw a staged demonstraiton and was not able to exercise any control over the material. It would have been shot with the single intention of impressing viewers.

[S8 Booster]

Watched it in Yodobashi Camera shop Tokyo.

Nice camera, nice TV, bad imagery.

Shoot....

[MovieStuff]

I saw a 4k demo this summer in Costco, of all places, and it was nothing short of stunning. Huge screen, about 80 inches diagonal, I'm guessing. Maybe bigger I dunno. They had footage of Europe and various other places around the world. I used my cell phone to shoot my daughter standing in front of it and she looked just like she was in the Alps. Amazing. Even more amazing was the real time up-rezzing of BluRay material to 4k. It looked for all the world just about as good as the original 4k material. They showed it quarter screen at normal BluRay resolution and then sized it up without an uprezz, which was pretty jaggy. Then the guy pushed a button and it was like magic watching the image convert to fake 4k. Not perfect but, holy shit, what an image improvement compared to normal BluRay at that same size and viewing distance, which was point blank. Crazy.

Roger

[JeremyC]

I think 4K is a great opportunity for film, 16 and 35 (hey, let's throw in 8mm as well), if its scanned properly along the way. I also wonder if mid range digital production and codec chains built for 4K are going to struggle in final image quality alongside film and high end digital systems pushing up production and post costs and the other thing I wonder about is what is the likely end to end cost impact of storage space including archiving and that these things will lead people to reconsider using film.

The other thing is at the moment 4K is an 'island hop' thing i.e. it has to hop from camera/recorder to edit suite to projector, something we had for a number of years in broadcast when transitioning from analog to digital. The only way it goes between 'islands' at the moment, apart from hand carrying the media, is via file transfer and managing that needs a different approach. The reason I'm thinking of this at the moment is that the other day I came across a colleague of mine in the reception of the broadcast site where I work and he was struggling to get a 4K signal to work in a huge 4K set on the wall. He had, of course, run four X Image 1000 cables into the box feeding the set for the four quadrants from the site originating the 4K signal. This may not mean much if you never have to get pictures around the place but the present state of 4K technology means it may take a take a bit longer for its widespread adoption so keeping certain price points along the chain expensive and out of reach for the average film maker.

[S8 Booster]

Not claiming the truth and nothing but the truth on this one of course dut what I watched was a very low light sample shot in a low light situation in a bar like environment possibly without any light setting and it certainly had all the ingredients which only VHS / NTSC can master allthough a mild way.

Now, this is of course in the other end of the conditions Roger experienced in his viewing so it is impossible to compare.

If I get time for it tomorrow I will go to the Shop again to se if there is a better section on that demo coming up.

I am so shit-pissed by video anyway that I didnt really care but it certainly didnt look lny good.

Well, time will Shåvv as they say over here.

Shoot....

[Tscan]

Most of the new big screen TV's I see in bars or on display make EVERYTHING look like video. Even old stuff shot on film. Basically everything looks like it's running at 29.97. Are all the new TV's set to run on a weird frame rate that people do not know better to change?

[MovieStuff]

It's called "Motion Smoothing" and the sets are always defaulted to it and people don't bother to change it in the settings.

Roger

[Angus]

Those "motion smoothing" settings are universally awful. There is one single legit use for this kind of system and that is taking kinescope/telerecordings of archive TV shows which were recorded from screen onto 16/35mm film before videotape was viable....and restoring the smooth video look. There is one decent system for doing this, called VidFire. There is no need to have motion smoothing on a domestic TV and it always looks simply awful. And yes, it will even make film look somewhat like video in a crap way.

4K certainly can look stunning. But I do remember in the early days of 1080 HD, some material shot in low light was poor due to the early HD sensors not really being up to the job. The 4K sensors will no doubt get better. 4K will take time to gain market share but ultimately it's the way forward. I saw it on an 80" screen in Vegas as a demonstration and as Roger says it was almost like looking out of a window at the various locations shown.

[MovieStuff]

Those "motion smoothing" settings are universally awful. There is one single legit use for this kind of system and that is taking kinescope/telerecordings of archive TV shows which were recorded from screen onto 16/35mm film before videotape was viable....and restoring the smooth video look. ......... And yes, it will even make film look somewhat like video in a crap way.

There is one other somewhat fascinating "benefit" of the motion smoothing. For better or worse, video has a very "live" look, as if it were happening right now in some other location and you are just looking in. I find it really interesting to watch 60-70 year old old documentary footage or a really old costume drama shot on film that suddenly has a very live video feel. Aesthetically, I have no interest but, from a human perspective, it's kind of neat seeing what looks like video shot of celebrities or historical figures recorded well before the advent of video as we know it today. But what is funny is how shows like Pawn Stars, which is shot on digital to look like film, suddenly revert back to the video look because the default mode for these new flat screens is with motion smoothing activated. And when you consider the number of television shows, in general, that go through the trouble to shoot digital at 24p, it's wickedly funny that consumer flat screens undo all that effort and restore the original video look. :lol:

Roger

[Tscan]

The most surprising thing is that no one seems to notice. I would think that when a show like "Bonanza" looks like the 6 o'clock news someone would notice 8O

[Tommy]

"motion smoothing activation".... I do not recall this in my TV set up menu...is this what it is listed as..any other terms?

[S8 Booster]

unfortunately there were no time to visit Yodobashi Cam Shop again so i will hvae to check i out here in PAL land when i get the opportuninty.
Cmz n TVs should already be on sale here.

shoot...FILM.....