Long Super 8 with sound- Realistic?

[Ektagraphic]

Hi Guys-
I am looking to make a biography/documentary that is extremely low budget. Since I am such a film fan, I will be looking to Super 8 and possibly 8mm and I was wondering if it is realistic to be able to sync up sound if I am looking to have an end product that is about an hour long. I was thinking of shooting on Vision...I don't know what will become of this film, if anything. I'd shoot 16mm or 35mm if I could but that is not realistic.

Thanks,

Patrick

[Will2]

Yes it is realistic if you are editing on the computer.

Once you sync up each individual shot with audio it should remain synced; in other words the length of the movie doesn't make a difference but the length of each shot might. Longer shots could have more audio sync drift... but editors like Final Cut allow you to fix that pretty easily.

Search for sync sound here and you'll see plenty of good suggestions on how to handle it. I'd start with a Zoom H4n to record sound.

[jpolzfuss]

Hi,

a) you can slate at the beginning and the end of each scene and use this info later on to sync the video-image with the recorded sound. (Once this is done, you can sync the video's sound with the super8-film.)
b) you can get cameras that are crystal-sync'ed and hence run at a fixed speed and are hence always in sync with digital recorders
c) a lot of cameras do have a "flash contact". This contact can be used to generate sync-beeps that can be recorded with most digital-audio-recording-devices (unless the recorder is using MP3 or similar with very low bitrates), e.g. with this GEBUHR-device: http://cgi.ebay.at/GEBUHR-MIC-Impulsgeb ... earbeitung
d) you can use any of those old sync-sound-setups that work with special tape-/reel-to-reel-recorders

Jörg

[Nrk]

Have been looking into this as well and the response has been more positive than i expected for sound sync with super 8. Am due to shoot a project within the next 6-8 weeks that will contain 5 minutes of live synced music. Will let you know how it goes but judging by what people have said, if you are editing on computer system then with a bit of time, patience, buckets of tea and some biscuits you should be all set.

[dave]

kma288 200 ft kodachrome sound film and kma 594 50ft kodachrome sound film available for sale $20-$25 per 50ft. processing must be done before jan 1 2010.
exp. '96-98. frozen since manufactured.
sound equip available at no charge with purchase of film
dave

[mr8mm]

Well - you have less than 3 months to get rid of the film before processing ends. Maybe you should consider lowering the price. At the right price you will make more money than by keeping the price high for what is about to become worthless sound film. js

[dave]

Hi John !
Long time no speak.
The 50ft kodachome which is the same as mine on ebay is going for more than twice my price. As far as the 200ft carts exp 96 and frozen they have not been sighted at all.
I have sold almost all my remaining stock for $25 per 50 ft over the past 2 years
I HAVE ONLY ABOUT 20- 50FT AND 7- 200FT CARTS LEFT.
If they dont sell by jan 1 so be it .I'm trying to recoup a minimum amont to cover some of my loss. Trust me IF dwaynes stop processing in dec they may have some antique value in a museum :lol:
dave

[mr8mm]

Will the price drop after Jan 1? Maybe I will buy some for my museum.

J.S.

[bandit9ca]

Hi Patrick,

The answer to your question in my experience isn't an easy one. Making a documentary with sync sound on Super 8 is much harder than doing a scripted film, because of the time factor to set up and slate shots if you are shooting on the run. Actually its the hardest to deal with of any of the film formats or video out there, but not impossible.

If you plan to shoot with silent film then you need to record sound on a digital recorder of some kind to maintain a constant record speed at least for your audio.

You have 4 options for shooting sound with a super 8 camera:

1. A crystal sync camera but very expensive and may not fit your budget
2. A silent camera with a pulse contact flash output to record sync pulses on a second audio track along with the audio. You will need some kind of resolver to match the audio to the film speed later in post.
3. A sound camera using Super 8 sound film. Easiest and cheapest of the 4 options but the film maybe hard to find.
4. A silent camera and hope the sound doesn't drift too much. Using a NLE helps but still a tedious process when syncing dialogue.

Each process has their pros and cons. There are also many factors which will affect the syncing of sound with your picture, like how your film will be transferred, battery power, how constant the speed of your camera motor is, etc. I haven't even touched on the subject of camera noise!

So the answer to your question is it possible to shoot sync sound with Super 8? Yes but with many hurdles to over come.

Good Luck!
Craig

[woods01]

Its long been argued that cost of shooting 16mm film is actually cheaper than Super 8. The only hurdle is the cost of the camera for 16mm is much higher but you could always sell your camera after your shoot is done.

Some of the old 16mm pros can fill in on this but I believe a common technique to conserve film was to keep the sound rolling throughout the interview and then fire up the camera in mid-interview when the important questions were asked.

If you're set on Super 8 then consider more creative alternatives to sync sound. Record any interviews on video with a quality microphone. Shoot b-roll on Super 8 and either cut between formats or shoot enough b-roll so that the subject could narrate the super 8 footage. Either way this would cut your film costs considerably so you're not filming entire interviews.

Search around the internet, there are lots of examples of super 8 docs shot independently on a shoe string.

[David M. Leugers]

I considered doing a S-8mm sound documentary but shot on DS-8mm. A Bolex DS-8mm camera and a Tobin sync motor (has to have a gear modification from being used on a 16mm camera) puts you into 5 minute takes. Put a 400ft magazine on top and shoot 20 minute takes... People have shot feature films using a Bolex and sound barney. With computerized editing it is even more feasible and easier. Not to mention you will get superior images if using the right glass due to the pressure plate and inherent registration of the Bolex camera. Another, maybe better choice would be to have a Canon DS-8mm modified with crystal sync.

[Will2]

Its long been argued that cost of shooting 16mm film is actually cheaper than Super 8. The only hurdle is the cost of the camera for 16mm is much higher but you could always sell your camera after your shoot is done.

Film stock and processing are more (unless you get into short ends & recans maybe), but telecine costs the same for Super 8, 16mm or 35mm at most high end facilities and that's the largest expense.