16mm camera question?

Post by **vidwerk** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 12:15 am

I know I'm moving format topics here, but if anyone knows, I'm thinking about buying a fairly inexpensive 16mm and I came across several cameras by the name of "Grasnogork" or something like that. Are these Russian cameras any good?

Thanks, Simon. :idea:

Post by **David M. Leugers** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 2:56 am

My K-3 Russian camera is a joy to handle, focus through the zoom lens and makes you want to go out and shoot some film. The sprocket, rollers and gate pressure pad are without a doubt, the cheapest piece of crap I have ever seen in a 16mm camera. What a shame. Mine sits on a shelf after I was extremely careful loading it and felt confident I would not suffer the kind of problems others have had with it. The whole roll of film I shot was useless as the film jumped in the gate, floated in the gate, and jammed in the camera. For my money, the cheapest Keystone 16mm camera which can often be purchased for less than $20 is a rock of reliability compared. Put a good lens on the Keystone and take some amazing footage. I used to be a Keystone snob, thinking it was below me until I read some old Moviemaker magazines where annual film contest winners were using Keystones to make their films. I shot some home movies with a Keystone A-9 that is impossible to tell from footage shot with my Bolex or Bell and Howell DR-70. The Russian windup S-8mm camera is a jewel! Some people love the Russian 16mm cameras. I think properly modified to improve on its faults, I'd love it too.

Post by **crimsonson** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 4:35 am

I think many of those who jumped from S8 to 16 did so with the Canon Scoopic.

Roger, Matt P., a pro DP I know, etc have all owned and are happy with their Scoopic.

Post by **MovieStuff** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 4:45 am

Scoopics are a blast. They have THE slickest self threading mechanism in the world and the glass is really nice. The camera works just like a big super 8 camera; beam splitter viewing and all. I highly recommend it for an easy and cheap step up to 16mm.

Roger

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 8:19 am

The Krasnogorsk K-3 can be a delight to use. They are apparently quite hit-and-miss though, build quality was not very consistent. If you get a good one it's a great camera. And at ~$150 or so, it's an incredible deal. The included lens is usually very, very sharp.

With that said, even if you get a good one, it has its limitations -- only 100' of film (about the same running time as a Super8 cartridge), spring-wound, you can only get takes of about 25 seconds, and the spring motor runs faster at the start of the take than at the end. But, conversely, it can use a huge array of M42 lenses, has true reflex viewing with a spinning mirror shutter, true ground glass focusing. Overall it's a good little camera and well worth the money (provided your particular camera works).

For spring-wound cameras, the Bolex is the class of the bunch... purrs like a swiss watch. Look for a Rex4 or Rex5, but be prepared to spend $500+ for the body alone.

Scoopics are marvelous, easy-to-use, intuitive cameras, and the Beaulieu R16 is one of the most Super8-like of cameras. With the built-in light meter, power zoom, automatic exposure, etc., you can shoot 16mm just as easily as S8 (except for the slightly more involved loading/threading process). Both cameras are noisy as heck. Both can take marvelous images. Neither are S16-upgradeable. The scoopic is perhaps easier to load and easier to use, but the R16 is more expandable (interchangeable lenses, 200' magazines, etc). Expect to pay $400-$1000 for a complete kit. The Scoopic MS is the top of the Scoopic line, offering the ability to add a 400' magazine.

Post by **double-wide** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:51 am

Greetings,

I too own a Canon Scoopic, and it is superb: small, steady, self loading, great big beautiful hunk of Japanese glass (72mm filter), it feels like a big super 8 camera. I believe this is the most underated 16mm camera. The pictures it takes are first rate. I also picked up a Bell & Howell 240 on ebay for $13.00. This thing was immaculate, and it produced some nice pictures.

Good luck,

Al

Post by **vidwerk** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 4:34 pm

Thanks to all for the info. Since reading your replies, I've been doing a bit of research on Scoopics. Just a few more questions to set me on my way please.
Does this camera have an interchangable lens mount(c-mount)for adding different lenses?
Does this camera also have a standard thread for a tripod?
And lastly, I'm hoping that it has an intervalometer and does timed exposure?
Thanks again.

Simon.

Post by **vidwerk** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 4:46 pm

Absolute last question. I forgot to ask about the battery. I don't know when these scoopics were made, but I'm wondering if depending on the age of the scoopic, will the battery still have any life left in it after a full charge? Are these batteries hard to come by and can I substitute a different battery by modifing the connections?
Thanks to all for you help,
Simon.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:30 pm

vidwerk wrote: Does this camera have an interchangable lens mount(c-mount)for adding different lenses?

No. Biggest drawback to the Scoopic is that you can only ever use the included lens. But, hey, 99.9999% of Super8 cameras have a fixed lens, so it's not like it's a major limitation, it's just sort of unique. In fact, I don't know that I can think of another 16mm camera that has a fixed lens...

8th Man · Post by **8th Man** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 10:00 pm

I've never used a scoopic, however my father used to shoot industrial films and wasn't all that hip on it. At least not compared with the Beaulieu they also used. It seems one could quickly outgrow one and need to move up the chain in too short a time. I use a Bolex rex 4 and an Eclair acl and enjoy them both. Bolexes can be had for about the same price as a scoopic and I'd sooner buy one of those.

mike · Post by **mike** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 12:50 am

ABout 6 years ago at a camera show someone was selling a scoopic for $100 with a case. I passed on it. The camera is a cheap version of a super 8 camera: fixed zoom lens probably with those metermatic irises - not the kind you see on c mount lenses or the like, etc.
The 16mm 50' magazine load camera are good and solid - keep an old film magaize aroung to remind you how to reload the film. Beaulieu makes a nice range of spring wound and electric cameras. You can substitute the hand battery pack by using a 7.5 nicad battery and making some wire connections inside the camera's battery plug.
or cine kodak model E - 100' load - looks like a normal 16mm camera. nonreflex, but you can add a c mount zoom lens with sidefinder.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:52 pm

Thanks to everyone for all their info and help. I did some research on scoopics, but didn't come across that many. I ended up buying a Bolex H16 for the time being anyhow. Unfortunately it is a non-reflex model but a got it for dirt cheap. I will just have to plan my shots better and avoid filming objects that move to and from the lens. Some day down the road I'll buy another, maybe a scoopic or a beaulieu.
Thanks again,

Simon. :idea:

Coles4038 · Post by **Coles4038** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 3:13 am

Hi,

Congrats!

I just bought a Rex 5 myself and been going camera intensive, if you know what I mean!

I learned this: With a non reflex model you can possibly get a Pan Cincor lens and have achieve reflex viewing thru the lens. Pretty awesome if you can get one intact. They seem to get modified.

Also, if you got itty bitty lenses with your camera, those are good ones! Don't be tempted to throw things out.

About the motors...

You get about 30 seconds with the wind up. Never force the lever, ever. Never run past 24 fps without film in camera. If camera is idle for a long time, never keep the winder wound. Let it run all the way then disengage the spring. This is possible because there's a motor one can attach and that means dissengaging the spring. Let the spring unwind till completion in normal use. Other than that, should be fine.

There is a great possiblity you won't need a motor for your shots, unless you need to capture a live performance in real time. Rent the stuff if you need that. (Unless it comes your way...)

About sync - don't worry about it till the need arises. It's a lot cheaper to rent that stuff locally or in the biggest city nearby. Computer editing takes care of many things.

What you'll find is that the viewer/reflex viewer is in the very least has a big psychological aspect to it. The camera itself doesn't care. Does that sound flippant! You find your lens you're good to go.

Here's the clicker. I've seen film clubs that will rent Bolex cameras for like $15/day unless you're by a big city then amazingly somehow there are no film clubs. (California excluded)

You will need a light meter for 24 (Hello Canada) 25 fps

Best of luck.

Post by **vidwerk** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:02 am

Thanks for the advise coles4038. I'm actually in the market for a good light meter. Can you suggest a good one.

Thanks,
Simon. :idea:

YouTube · Post by **wahiba** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 2:45 pm

I am a fan of the Johnson Calculator. So long as you are in the latitude 45 - 55 degrees north. No electrics to go wrong! Always checks out with the lightmeter. Just look in the junk box at photo stores - you might be lucky. You need the reversal model for cine. Great compliment to the clockwork cine camera.