I'm doing the poor man's telecine. I project my footage onto a white piece of paper using a Bolex 18-5 projector and then recapture the image using my Panasonic HVX200. The advantage to using the HVX is that it allows for variable frame rates and variable shutter speeds. By using variable shutter, I have been able to get rid of any strobing effect. Also, because of the extensive in-camera color controls, I have been able to come pretty close to color-matching the film. The thing that I am having trouble with is frame-blending. I'm just curious if any one has tried using the HVX for this and if someone has found the right combination of shutter speed and frame rate and would be willing to share their findings.
Thanks in advance for sharing.
If you would like to see some film footage that I've captured using the HVX200, visit: http://www.markleedenney.com/H2O/Nigeria_8film.mov
Anyone using the HVX200 to telecine?
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
It works rather well
i would like to hear a sound track of the music jam.
- adamgarner
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I did some telecine with the HVX. It looks like you set it up to capture at 18fps, like I did, in order to get rid of the flicker? What was your shutter speed? 1/30?
I am only guessing that the frame rate was dropped to 18 because the motion looks slightly sped up, but I could be wrong. When you place the 18 fps capture into a 24fps sequence it will speed up. So you have to slow your 24fps sequence down. That will cause frame blending to occur in FCP and I never liked the look. I thought it felt weird.
If you're capturing at 24fps, the hvx will capture blended frames from the projection. In fact, I think I see that when I watch your sequence frame by frame.
Overall it seems good. Before posting I'd crop the image to get rid of all the black, and lose the projector sound too. It bugs!
I actually went back to capturing with a sony FX1 in HDV. I don't know why but it felt more organic when I watched it. There are a few clips on my site.
Glad to hear that others are telecineing at home with HD. Looks SO much better!
I am only guessing that the frame rate was dropped to 18 because the motion looks slightly sped up, but I could be wrong. When you place the 18 fps capture into a 24fps sequence it will speed up. So you have to slow your 24fps sequence down. That will cause frame blending to occur in FCP and I never liked the look. I thought it felt weird.
If you're capturing at 24fps, the hvx will capture blended frames from the projection. In fact, I think I see that when I watch your sequence frame by frame.
Overall it seems good. Before posting I'd crop the image to get rid of all the black, and lose the projector sound too. It bugs!
I actually went back to capturing with a sony FX1 in HDV. I don't know why but it felt more organic when I watched it. There are a few clips on my site.
Glad to hear that others are telecineing at home with HD. Looks SO much better!
I have been using the HVX along with a workprinter unit. My transfers have only been in SD cause I cannot get the PC to recognize the DVCPROHD Codec through firewire. I did tests on a macbook pro and the mac can capture the dvcprohd using capturemate with no problem. I just need to throw down the cash on a Mac Pro tower then I can do frame by frame HD Transfers.
Your stuff looked pretty good though for off the wall.
Your stuff looked pretty good though for off the wall.
Adam,
The example footage that I posted was shot with the HVX at 24PA with 305 degree shutter at 24fps. The original film was shot with a Kodak Brownie camera at 16fps and played back on the Bolex at 18fps.
If you're capturing at 24fps, the hvx will capture blended frames from the projection. In fact, I think I see that when I watch your sequence frame by frame.
In theory, if I am able to sink the HVX frame rate and shutter speed with the film playback frame rate and shutter then I can capture individual unblended frames, correct?
The example footage that I posted was shot with the HVX at 24PA with 305 degree shutter at 24fps. The original film was shot with a Kodak Brownie camera at 16fps and played back on the Bolex at 18fps.
If you're capturing at 24fps, the hvx will capture blended frames from the projection. In fact, I think I see that when I watch your sequence frame by frame.
In theory, if I am able to sink the HVX frame rate and shutter speed with the film playback frame rate and shutter then I can capture individual unblended frames, correct?
- adamgarner
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I suppose, in theory, that it's possible to get your projector and your camera synced to eliminate all flicker and to get (damn near close to) progressive scan. You'd have to, in theory, have the shutter on both the HVX and the projector timed exactly right to start at the same time. That's in theory. Roger, from MovieStuff.tv, would know the details on that. He's on here somewhere!
In the digital realm, though, there is only 24, 25, 29.97, and so on. There is no 18fps, and definately no 16fps. So let's say you shoot your HVX at a 16 or 18fps, which you and I both did. You'll find that when you import it into FCP, or any other editing software, it will not fit into a 24fps sequence frame for frame. You will see the footage is sped up significantly if not altered. So, you'll have to slow down the footage. Any NLE system will have to blend the frames to make it flow.
So, short answer, you're going to get frame blending either way if your original footage is at 16 or 18. If you don't want it, shoot at 24.
I don't find the frame blending I have to be that noticeable. It keeps it looking jerky, and vintage, if that's what you're going for.
In the digital realm, though, there is only 24, 25, 29.97, and so on. There is no 18fps, and definately no 16fps. So let's say you shoot your HVX at a 16 or 18fps, which you and I both did. You'll find that when you import it into FCP, or any other editing software, it will not fit into a 24fps sequence frame for frame. You will see the footage is sped up significantly if not altered. So, you'll have to slow down the footage. Any NLE system will have to blend the frames to make it flow.
So, short answer, you're going to get frame blending either way if your original footage is at 16 or 18. If you don't want it, shoot at 24.
I don't find the frame blending I have to be that noticeable. It keeps it looking jerky, and vintage, if that's what you're going for.
- Plastik
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- Location: Melbourne, Australia
The hvx200 is 13x zoom, right? I find that 12x zoom is hardly enough for the workprinter (4:3 ratio).El Jeffe wrote:I have been using the HVX along with a workprinter unit. My transfers have only been in SD cause I cannot get the PC to recognize the DVCPROHD Codec through firewire. I did tests on a macbook pro and the mac can capture the dvcprohd using capturemate with no problem. I just need to throw down the cash on a Mac Pro tower then I can do frame by frame HD Transfers.
I’m guessing that 13x zoom would be just nice (4:3). However, can you zoom in to the frame at 16:9 mode – is the zoom enough?
I’ve been thinking about this camera for a while but haven’t got around to trying it yet.
When you say hd scans, do you mean at 1920x1080i? That would require a raid set up of many hdd’s would it not?
Ertugrul Togacay
- adamgarner
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Plastik, the HVX200 records at 720p or 1080i, and it does so using DVCPROHD compression, a standard for Panasonic, even in the higher end cameras.
Because its compressed, you can manage DVCPROHD footage on a Mac Pro just fine, or even an old G5. DVCPROHD is a good compression for post production, though it wasn't really designed as such, like the new Apple Pro Res 422. (422 requires a new Intel, though)
Assuming you have a kick-ass computer, RAID is really only necessary for uncompressed footage.
RAID would lighten the load for disk reads as they seem to be the bottleneck for DVCPROHD but in my experience it's not necessary. Processor speed is the bottleneck for HDV (and a FAST processor IS necessary) because it requires a sh*t-load of math to uncompress when playing or adding effects.
I'm generalizing quite a bit, but that's the short of it.
On the workprinter stuff, I dunno anything since I don't have one. I shoot off the wall!
Because its compressed, you can manage DVCPROHD footage on a Mac Pro just fine, or even an old G5. DVCPROHD is a good compression for post production, though it wasn't really designed as such, like the new Apple Pro Res 422. (422 requires a new Intel, though)
Assuming you have a kick-ass computer, RAID is really only necessary for uncompressed footage.
RAID would lighten the load for disk reads as they seem to be the bottleneck for DVCPROHD but in my experience it's not necessary. Processor speed is the bottleneck for HDV (and a FAST processor IS necessary) because it requires a sh*t-load of math to uncompress when playing or adding effects.
I'm generalizing quite a bit, but that's the short of it.
On the workprinter stuff, I dunno anything since I don't have one. I shoot off the wall!