ultra 8?

[David M. Leugers]

I was wondering why you said to use reg 8 film...since you would not be able to project the film in a reg 8 projector anyway...since you do NOT slice the film down the middle...

Yeah, I was mulling it over in my head about using R-8mm film and modifying a 16mm camera to only pull down one frame instead of two and then modifying a 16mm projector with gate to match, but then thought what the hell and make it easy if all one is doing with the film is transferring it for post. The R-8mm stuck in my mind. :oops:

The whole idea of film running horizontally is taken from the very real VistaVision system that was in vogue in the 1950's (Hichcock's Vertigo for example) and resurrected when Lucas made "Star Wars" for shooting the background plates for special effects. I think for all the trouble of a VistaVision 16mm camera, you'd be better off shooting 35mm Techniscope.

David M. Leugers

[Jim Carlile]

American Graffiti was shot on 35mm cameras/film with the gate masked in exactly this method to give them their faux widescreen look - at least that is what I recall them saying on the dvd extras...they had no money for the film so this was a viable solution.

That was the Techniscope and Lucas also used it on THX 1138. What it was was that the camera only pulled down the 35mm film half-way so you got twice the film plus a more rectangular aspect ratio.

http://www.jkor.com/peter/techniscope.html

This was a Technicolor invention and they had a big minimum order-- in the mid 70's that Lab changed over most of their old processes anyway and they got rid of Techniscope, too.

Since there's nothing new under the sun, all of these Ultra 8 ideas were done before in the 50's and 60's, with names like 'Half-Sixteen' or whatever. Some were quite successful, they say. The expert on all of this stuff is/was Tony Shapps at the Widescreen Center in London. He cut his teeth on these things-- Give him a write...

[papercrate]

Alright, maybe I should have started a new topic, this one is pretty loaded with info already, but it was a good place to start for me.

I'm an artist based in London and I'm working on a new piece that I am developing specifically for an Elmo C-300 (Tri-filmatic) using the Double Super 8 back. (BTW, I missing the extension tube for the eyepiece... anybody?)

What I want to do is film both sides of the film and then project it un-split.

After doing quite a bit of research I am still a bit confused on what will be the easiest/most-economical way to do this. I was imagining that I would simply use a projector that was modified to handle the Super 8 sprocket holes and also modify the gate. But now I'm not so sure.

Is there a 16mm projector that can already handle Super 8 film? I imagine there would be...

What about re-perforating 16mm film? Can film be re-perfed for DS8?

I found this link interesting: viewtopic.php?t=17871

Also, that link for the Double Super 8 16:9 modification... I found that really interesting. Maybe something for the future.

Goodness, I had a bunch more technical questions, but now that I'm writing this I forget. I'll follow up if I can remember them.

I'm familiar with and have been in to the Widescreen Centre before. (Pretty close to my Uni.) And I haven't been to Blue Audio Visual but I know them. I think I saw some of the guys who work there post here. So I'll have to stop in sometime soon.

It's kind of important that I keep with the Elmo C-300 for shooting the film, and I like to possibly shoot with that newer Cinevia Professional DS 8 (http://www.unsaleable.com/cinematograph ... id=346&p=3) But otherwise I'm open to any suggestions/ideas! Thanks.

[bakanosaru]

What I want to do is film both sides of the film and then project it un-split.

The easiest way to do this is with R8mm (not DS8) as it will run through an unmodified 16mm projector. I'm sure if you did a forum search you'd come up with some more info.
People when doing this usually shoot the first half then shoot the second half with the camera upside down so that when projected in a 16mm projector the both pairs of images are the right way up. (One side will be running backwards the other forwards iirc).

| A | B |
---------
| A | B |

Have you got the R8mm back for the 'tri-filmatic'? Might be worth hunting it down.

[papercrate]

Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate it.

Come to think of it, that would be easier/better. But I'd really like to use this new Cinevia film that the guys at unsaleable.com are selling (my friends knows them pretty well and I can get some deals.) And unfortunately it only comes in single-perf 16mm, 35mm, and DS8.

Could anybody recommend a nice 8mm film that would be comparable?

I know exactly what you are talking about with turning the camera upside down when shooting the other side. That was my intention all along. Also, why I like the Elmo C-300– I could film with the cap on first after I've flipped the film holder and then film in reverse so when projected, both sides are moving forward! Very cool...

Also, with the normal 16mm projector, would you see 4 images projected? sides A and B above sides A and B respectively just one frame behind?

I would still would love to be able to do this in DS8, if for nothing than the challenge. Any other suggestions?

And alas, another problem for me– I have two Super 8 backs, the Single 8 back, and the DS8 back, but no Standard 8 back.

Anybody Elmo folks out there, I'd love a Standard 8 back and an eyepiece extension if you've got any to spare! I have some other great stuff to trade as well. (Subminis, etc.)

Thanks again!

[bakanosaru]

Also, with the normal 16mm projector, would you see 4 images projected? sides A and B above sides A and B respectively just one frame behind?

exactly.

does the Elmo shoot in reverse like that with the R8mm back?

Perhaps someone out there knows which 8mm cameras can shoot in reverse? (I'm pretty sure my Canon 512 Cinezoom doesn't, backwinding yes but reverse shooting I don't think so.)