With Spectra, Pro8mm and Wittner cutting down 35mm stocks for Super 8, I wonder if they have considered Fuji's Provia 400? Test shots I've done in 35mm still photography were impressive and very low grain.
Would that ASA translate to 400 in Super 8? It would be interesting to have a reversal at such high speed with the quality of a modern E6 film.
I know Fuji will supply film in bulk for these companies to cut down... guess there would have to be a demand.
To my knowledge, Pro8mm is the only company IN THE WORLD that is cutting super 8 film out of 35mm film. And only Kodak, Fuji, Pro8 and Kahl film have machines currently operating that can perforate Super 8 film.
Spectra's Velvia is supplied to whoever carts it in super 8 (single 8) format. Their 100d when it happens (if it hasn't already) comes from Kodak produced DS8 - Spectra just need to slit it.
I don't believe Wittner use any perfing machines at all (but I am happy - indeed excited - if I can be corrected on that). Their Velvia when they have offered it has come from the same source as spectra and GK - direct from Fuji. Their 100d I understand has come from Kodak in Super 8 gauge - but I do think they cart it. Again, happy to be corrected here.
That said, Provia is available in Single 8 already through Retro in Japan. This would seem to imply that the same source has made it available for putting in Single 8 carts - ie Fuji. They seem really good at letting their film out.
With all that said, it would be great to get some of this Provia carted in Super 8. I would definitely participate in a large order if one could be organised. Best bet would be to petition Spectra to buy some from Fuji. I would gladly by 100 to sell through my lab.
I run Nano Lab - Australia's super8 ektachrome processing service
- visit nanolab.com.au
richard@nanolab.com.au
I think the Provia 400 is pointless since it is a daylight balanced stock. I think it would be better to shoot 100 or 50ASA under daylight conditions in super 8.
I know that Spectra loads everything since they have many boxes of Kodak carts stacked up. And, I have seen their treated cartridges fully disassembled and drying in rows.
They have many machines for different purposes in the darkroom area of their building, but I have no idea what they do.
DrkAngl wrote:I think the Provia 400 is pointless since it is a daylight balanced stock. I think it would be better to shoot 100 or 50ASA under daylight conditions in super 8.
Point well taken except so much indoor light now is daylight balanced... especially in sports situations.
I wonder how ugly this would look? KODAK EKTACHROME P1600. Probably too expensive to even try. Normal ISO is 800 but can push to 3200 as needed. Daylight balanced, but with a filter you could still have what... 620 or 500?
richard p. t. wrote:To my knowledge, Pro8mm is the only company IN THE WORLD that is cutting super 8 film out of 35mm film. And only Kodak, Fuji, Pro8 and Kahl film have machines currently operating that can perforate Super 8 film.
Spectra's Velvia is supplied to whoever carts it in super 8 (single 8) format. Their 100d when it happens (if it hasn't already) comes from Kodak produced DS8 - Spectra just need to slit it.
I don't believe Wittner use any perfing machines at all (but I am happy - indeed excited - if I can be corrected on that). Their Velvia when they have offered it has come from the same source as spectra and GK - direct from Fuji. Their 100d I understand has come from Kodak in Super 8 gauge - but I do think they cart it. Again, happy to be corrected here.
GK has built a perforator themselves to produce their cinevia. He is not supplying raw material to others.
Wittner is not getting their specialties from Kahl and neither from Pro8 (competitors and lack of quality at both) so who is then perforating theirs???
FOMA is perforating DS8 themselves but not slitting to S8
Ther are plenty of old machines and having one built to specifications is not that difficult at Buko Gmbh
Maybe ask Juergen Lossau. He is well informed and lives around the corner
Is that Ekta P1600 an old film? I've never seen it at any retailer I frequent either in 'real life' or online.
I don't see much point in a daylight balanced super 8 stock faster than 100ASA...but a tungsten stock rated somewhere between 200 and 400ASA would be great.
Surely anything rated faster than 400 would have golf-ball grain in super 8 ?
The government says that by 2010 30% of us will be fat....I am merely a trendsetter
Quite right AJ I forgot Foma. I am pleased if you tell me GK actually have a perforator that is perforating their CINEVIA. That makes KODAK, FUJI, PRO8, KAHL, GK and FOMA currently perforating super 8 perfs in film for sale.
Yes, Spectra are loading Kodak carts themselves, that is fantastic.
A high speed tungsten stock would be very desirable. I have investigated the options with Kodak. Thing is one would need long lengths. I asked after the 160 Ektachrome tungsten , a 320T(if I recall correctly) and their 400D. All of these I think are listed as available in long lengths - which with still film meas 100' - barely enough but possible. Calling Rochester and a few other numbers I could find (at something like 3am my time I will add!) it turned out that these 100' lengths of these stocks had been discontinued. Bugger. No doubt they could be produced, but only for big bucks. The minimum order quantity for the 100d in DS8 is 20 x 400'. This is the moq for a product they decided to produce because they had a number of requests for it. A single request for long length 35mm 160T or simmilar may be more.
I am keen to be able to offer a high speed tungsten reversal film in S8. Fuji's highest speed tungsten is the 64T they sell. It may push better than Ektachrome 64T ...
I was keen to read in Small Format about TASMA film having a modern colour reversal emulsion available. I want to know more about it.
I run Nano Lab - Australia's super8 ektachrome processing service
- visit nanolab.com.au
richard@nanolab.com.au
Angus wrote:Is that Ekta P1600 an old film? I've never seen it at any retailer I frequent either in 'real life' or online.
I don't see much point in a daylight balanced super 8 stock faster than 100ASA...but a tungsten stock rated somewhere between 200 and 400ASA would be great.
Surely anything rated faster than 400 would have golf-ball grain in super 8 ?
I agree. Except for slo-mo, there's really no point. For still, 400 ASA daylight makes sense for stopping action under flash, but we don't have a similar need in cine applications.
The problem is that the still stocks are what drive product availability in small format reversal, so you have a conflict. What we really need is a 400 ASA T grain reversal in Tungsten, something that's almost pointless for still photographers -- most stage stuff is going to be digital today. Have you ever tried to find 160T the day of a concert? It's impossible -- you have to have stocked up because it feels like I'm the only person in the world shooting live acts at 640 on film. And that old film is so grainy, it would be painful in 16mm, let alone 8mm.
I doubt we'll ever see a high speed reversal tungsten film after 160T goes away. And that means no high speed reversals in Super 8 in the future.
You'd think there is enough of a market for one of the film companies to make a relatively high speed reversal tungsten film. Sure, not many people will use it but it could be a niche product.
I still don't think there's any need for a high speed daylight stock, the 100D is so fast that even at 56fs in moderate light you're OK.
What about Fuji's 200 ASA tungsten film for single 8? Would they ever allow that to be loaded into super 8 cartridges?
The government says that by 2010 30% of us will be fat....I am merely a trendsetter
[quote="Angus"]
Surely anything rated faster than 400 would have golf-ball grain in super 8 ?[/quote]
Noticed that the provia 400 has an rms of 11, the same as 64t!!!!!!!! Goes to show how old the kodak 64t emulsion is. Fuji can produce a 400asa film with the same grain levels of 64t!!!!!!!!!!.
The odds of a new tungsten colour reversal emulsion ever being developed are virtually zero. We really have to content ourselves in that direction with what has already been produced. It is possible that Kodak still has some of their 160 asa material un-perforated in one of their cryogenic lead coffers. They don't have any of the 100' 35mm bulk loads of this stock available any more. This would have been the minimum requirement for getting some perfed to super 8 by a third party.
I am interested in acquiring some of the Fuji 64t reversal and push processing it to 160. Given its a much newer and better stock to Ektachrome 64t (which pushes to 160 pretty badly) it might be a good option. Stay tuned on that. I hope to get some soon. As for the Fujichrome 200t, that would be possible but not probable. Also while it can be processed in E6, it has a very tough rem-jet backing that requires scrubbing off. This is a problem for getting labs to do it.
I run Nano Lab - Australia's super8 ektachrome processing service
- visit nanolab.com.au
richard@nanolab.com.au
shot a few carts of PRO8 custom made P400. film fab. average visible grain no more than Non-Canon cameras offers with K40. dark areas a bit more grain than NC cams on K40.
contrast still significantly better than E64 and far less grainy than E64 and the grain structure is way more homogenous... not "sparky" like E64.
also shot some P100Ds and the grain is the non-issue at all.
in my opinion it looks better than F400 due to the "polished" imagery.
posted some frames of the F400 earlier but can no refind due to some restructuring of the Pictures area.
anywayhow... here is a bad DIY sample lightly tweaked... way off the original projected...... but grainwise... quite telling....
shoot: (clicka da imaga to view full size)
Last edited by S8 Booster on Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
